Observations based on old traditional folders

[EDCanAdamas]

I recent purchased an old Cattaragus Cutlery folder for .25 at a garage sale . This knife was worn from years of use, but aside from surface rust the blades were in good shape. That knife got me to thinking about these old folders. I have seen old traditionals with hardly any blades left due to sharpening. In the old days it seems that people would use a blade until it was literally gone, and then move on to the next one until all of the blades that folder were gone. I guess things have changed a lot since then, as I rarely see blades on anyones knives sharpened to the point that nothing is left.

Has anyone else noticed this (and wants to comment)? I find the change in the mindset relating to knife use, blade resharping, and product longevity fascinating.

 

[Shaggy]

I agree with your observations but I might add that back in the day most people lacked disposable income to afford more than one knife. Thus one was forced to use the knife into oblivion.

 

[Primble]

I agree with your observations but I might add that back in the day most people lacked disposable income to afford more than one knife. Thus one was forced to use the knife into oblivion.

Carrying the same knife every day is similar to wearing the same pair of shoes every day, they wear out much faster. In some cases, over-sharpening or lack of sharpening skills added to even faster blade loss. Seemed like my grandfather was always stroking his Barlow on a sharpening stone.

 

[jc57]

Some people used to sharpen knives on the concrete porch steps. That'll wear 'em down. I had seen it done in my youth.

 

[Over/under]

I recent purchased an old Cattaragus Cutlery folder for .25 at a garage sale . This knife was worn from years of use, but aside from surface rust the blades were in good shape. That knife got me to thinking about these old folders. I have seen old traditionals with hardly any blades left due to sharpening. In the old days it seems that people would use a blade until it was literally gone, and then move on to the next one until all of the blades that folder were gone. I guess things have changed a lot since then, as I rarely see blades on anyones knives sharpened to the point that nothing is left.

Has anyone else noticed this (and wants to comment)? I find the change in the mindset relating to knife use, blade resharping, and product longevity fascinating.

I think this trend goes beyond knives to the modern view to dispose and replace something instead of repair. Cars, TVs, cloths, knives, you name it. People replace things long before they are truly worn out. Knife collectors/enthusiasts make up a very small percentage of the knife using population. I'd be willing to bet that most of the people who use knives these days opt for a cheap disposable folder that is lost long before the blade is sharpened to a toothpick.

 

[midnight flyer]

I agree with your observations but I might add that back in the day most people lacked disposable income to afford more than one knife. Thus one was forced to use the knife into oblivion.

No kidding. I know my grandfather probably owned about 10 to 12 folding knives his whole life. He used them until there was nothing left, and used them for everything including as a screwdriver, scraper, gouge, drill, and anything else that he thought he should use it to do. Occasionally, he used it as a slicing tool as well.

His hunting knives were completely different and got great treatment.

I think two other aspects enter into the life of older knives. First, they were used for all kinds of things not just cutting sandwich, peeling and apple or opening the mail. They did all those things too, but I also remember my grandfather whipping out his folder to cut heavy hose to the water pump on his truck to repair it, clean off the battery terminals and even strip the wire to the contacts. That was frequently, too.

The other thing is the fact that Grandad didn't have any sophisticated stones, polishers, strops and other equipment to that took the minute amounts to put a mirror finish on the blade. He sharpened on his double sided Norton stone or a stone of unknown origin or grit. They were all aggressive and I would be no finer than about 300 gr, which by today's standard is extra coarse. It sure ground down his knives!

Robert

 

[Raymond1000]

My first knife was a Schrade Jr. Stockman. I used it for years, until the main blade was a toothpick.

I bought an identical one. Sharpened it to a toothpick.

I don’t use knives as much anymore, so they last longer.

 

[leghog]

People replace things long before they are truly worn out.

Which is why so much of what I own is used. My car, my ruck, my watches, my knives, my guns, my freezer, my better furniture, my house, my wrought iron patio furniture, etc, etc. There are great deals to be had, and often the older stuff is better.

 

[VCM3]

I think there are so many variables to the OP's observation.
How about the idea that ,in days gone by,how many of those "nubster" vintage knives we see,were,abused, in modern day standards ,but was just normal usage then. Certainly,things have changed.

I myself could never wear out any one knife .

Here is a modern custom,Rick Menefee knife , owned , used pretty frequently,by Rick's younger brother Rocky.

 

[Codger_64]

I read some time back that many years ago cutleries had determined that the average lifespan of a knife was three or four years. Back in that day people were much heavier users of knives. More people lived in rural areas where cutting tasks were more frequent and more demanding. Progressively since that time, the population has shifted greatly from rural to urban and knife tasks and usage have changed. And the once huge demand for traditional knives has likewise fallen far below what it once was. Thus many cutleries have gone out of business and the remaining ones compete for an ever shrinking market share. While difficult for most of us, we must remind ourselves that knife collectors represent a very small portion of the knife consumer market. It is still an important segment that most makers compete for, but they could not survive on this segment alone. A few do but it is their business model to stay small. An order for a dozen dozen knives was the most common minimum quantity sold back in the day, a unit of 144 knives. These small modern "boutique makers" would find it impossible to even turn out 20,000 knives a day, much less market them.

 

[arizonaranchman]

A subject I've always found interesting. I agree, sharpening techniques of the day for the average person were crude by the standards of our BF family here - methods that would horrify many here in this forum. People had ONE or perhaps two of something if they were lucky and that was it. That knife had to do it all, even things we'd never dream of or attempt with our pocket knives today.

 

[jackknife]

I agree with your observations but I might add that back in the day most people lacked disposable income to afford more than one knife. Thus one was forced to use the knife into oblivion.

The winner!

People today have no idea of how tough it must have been in the "old" days. Both my folks lived through the depression, and growing up I must have heard it a zillion times, "you kids don't know the value of money, you didn't live through the depression!" I know it must have made one heck of an impression on myoldman, even with a secure government job and pension, if he had to replace the motor in the furnace or other electric item, he'd stash the old burned out motor under his work bench because as he put it, "if things get bad agains, that copper wire will be valuable." He and my mom both worried that things could go bad again. They hordes things like canning jars, can goods, They wouldn't buy anything as long as one iota of use remained in the old one.

Most of the rural folks in pre WW2 American operated on a lean budget anyway. Factor in the depression, and you didn't buy anything but food unless you really needed it. Today, the modern young city people have no idea living cautiously as far as financial things. Most are not even saving for a rainy day. There's a whole different set of values now, or lack of, and people just get rid of things because they are tired of it, and they can afford to just ditch it. Or just buy a new one and keep the old one. I can remember when a blue color man had just one good suit for a Sunday or other special occasion like a wedding. Women had the "Sunday outfit."

The other thing is, they didn't have credit cards back then. You did the unthinkable, you had to save up for it. You budgeted it into your monthly spending. If there was no money for it, you didn't buy it. Now they just get it and worry about it next month, or the month after. Or never, it they declare bankruptcy and walk away from the debt.

Also, more people are staying single longer. In the old days, by the time you were in your early 20's, you were hitched with a kid or two to care for. Now you have singles in their 30's with good jobs still playing at being 21 years old. THis means a very large disposable income for young men with no family to support. So they have luxury items like upscale cars that they trade every few years, clothing, and collections. People didn't collect in the old days, they couldn't afford to unless they were up there toward the top of the economic pyramid.

 

[MerryMadMonk]

I recent purchased an old Cattaragus Cutlery folder for .25 at a garage sale . This knife was worn from years of use, but aside from surface rust the blades were in good shape. That knife got me to thinking about these old folders. I have seen old traditionals with hardly any blades left due to sharpening. In the old days it seems that people would use a blade until it was literally gone, and then move on to the next one until all of the blades that folder were gone. I guess things have changed a lot since then, as I rarely see blades on anyones knives sharpened to the point that nothing is left.

Has anyone else noticed this (and wants to comment)? I find the change in the mindset relating to knife use, blade resharping, and product longevity fascinating.

Sorta like some of these that were used by farmers and cattlemen in my family. And they didn't throw away much of anything!

In contrast, this one doesn't see nearly the hard use as the ones shown above. Plus, it's not used every day... not even every 7 days. It shares time with about a dozen others. I actually use some of those pictured above from time to time... just because.

 

[jakemex]

I have an old well used slimline trapper sharpened like the ones in the above posts, I used the coarse stones for a toothy edge which I still like. I had several other knives hunting knives and gifts that I just didn't use because I used my old Case slimline for everything with the thought of using it up and then getting another like it. And so I did! But now with some extra disposable money I get eye candy.

 

[C_Becker]

Back then, they didn't have those disposable carpet knives with the break-off blades. If I imagine I'd use my pocket knives for everything, they'd be much more worn down, too.

 

[puukkoman]

Carl, I think you've described it very well. There is a huge cultural shift that's happened, affecting many aspects of our lives, and this pocket knife business is just one symptom.

 

[DrPenguin]

Good points all around. I think that Carl did nail a very real phenomenon about consumption characteristics of the elder generations. I've seen the same thing myself. And I don't think anyone can deny that those folks used, and had more use for, a knife in their everyday lives.

But I have to tell you that based on what I've seen the observation about how a knife is sharpened and how that affects its lifespan is every bit as real. Not many folks back in those day had many grades of stone and precise angle sharpening systems. And I know both of those have really changed blade life for the better in my own experience. How much of the difference in a pocket knife's lifespan does this explain? I haven't a clue. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was a fair amount of it. Maybe not a majority, but a good bit.

That said, every once in a while I see a really old knife that has been, in rifle parlance, "carried a lot and shot a little". To my eyes those are the real gems. When you see the polished and worn jig bone handles but a carefully maintained blade that shows the gent carrying it was very careful to save as much blade as possible. I really enjoy seeing one of those and look forward to making a few of these masterpieces in my lifetime.

Will

 

[jc57]

I think it's also likely in addition to some of the points raised, that knives were sold off of display cards at every hardware store, general store, Sears, Woolworth's and gas stations. I'm sure there were people of all income levels who bought and used knives, even some who bought fancy ones for suit vest pockets that never did much more than cut the end off a cigar.

But for the most part I think people bought a pocket knife as the original multi-tool and used it. They used them, sharpened them, reprofiled blades using a grinding stone, file, sidewalk, maybe even an Arkansas stone and the result is what you see. If they got too worn down to be useful, they'd go buy another one and toss the worn out one in a tool box in case they needed something with that worn down blade profile.

If anything, since most of us who need a multi-tool actually have a multi-tool, pocket knives get used for cutting things that are suitable for cutting with a pocket knife and we get out that leatherman for when we need to pry or turn a screw. So the knife blades today tend to get less use (abuse) and can continue to look relatively new for a long period of time.

 

[2Dead]

But I have to tell you that based on what I've seen the observation about how a knife is sharpened and how that affects its lifespan is every bit as real. Not many folks back in those day had many grades of stone and precise angle sharpening systems. And I know both of those have really changed blade life for the better in my own experience. How much of the difference in a pocket knife's lifespan does this explain? I haven't a clue. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was a fair amount of it. Maybe not a majority, but a good bit.

Will

I just wanted to comment that in addition to only using 1 knife and using it up, I believe this is a big part of it too. A few passes on a coarse stone takes more metal off than a ultra fine ceramic stone. Unless you ding up the edge you don't need to take much off to keep a knife sharp. Someone who doesn't have the disposable income to buy many knives probably has less for all the sharpening equipment we use today.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

I read some time back that many years ago cutleries had determined that the average lifespan of a knife was three or four years. Back in that day people were much heavier users of knives. More people lived in rural areas where cutting tasks were more frequent and more demanding. Progressively since that time, the population has shifted greatly from rural to urban and knife tasks and usage have changed. And the once huge demand for traditional knives has likewise fallen far below what it once was. Thus many cutleries have gone out of business and the remaining ones compete for an ever shrinking market share. While difficult for most of us, we must remind ourselves that knife collectors represent a very small portion of the knife consumer market. It is still an important segment that most makers compete for, but they could not survive on this segment alone. A few do but it is their business model to stay small. An order for a dozen dozen knives was the most common minimum quantity sold back in the day, a unit of 144 knives. These small modern "boutique makers" would find it impossible to even turn out 20,000 knives a day, much less market them.

I was horrified when I read that in either a knife book/Knife World article, in reference to Remington cutlery. All of those Remington knives worn down to nothing! I have a Remington barlow that I originally bought with two blades, well, one main blade and a nub of a pen blade, literally. Bob Picklesimer removed the remainder of the pen blade and put new scales on it for me. It's got a second life as a letter opener now.