Observations based on old traditional folders

[kamagong]

I just wanted to comment that in addition to only using 1 knife and using it up, I believe this is a big part of it too. A few passes on a coarse stone takes more metal off than a ultra fine ceramic stone. Unless you ding up the edge you don't need to take much off to keep a knife sharp. Someone who doesn't have the disposable income to buy many knives probably has less for all the sharpening equipment we use today.

I was thinking the same thing. Most households probably had an India or soft Arkansas stone at home. That was it. A man who owned one knife and used it until he wore it out wouldn't spend the money on an Edge Pro or 30k Shapton.

- Christian

 

[Raymond1000]

I sharpened pocket knives on the same carborundum stone I used for sharpening wood chisels and plane irons. One side coarse grit, one side fine.

I split a 2 X 4 and hollowed both sides into pockets. Half the stone was exposed when I removed either cover. The lumber protected stone from tools, and tools from stone, in my toolbox.

These days I keep a credit card sized diamond sharpening plate in my wallet. There was no such thing back then.

I usually had my tools—stone included—in my car trunk. If I was away from them, and I had to sharpen a blade, I improvised.

 

[davek14]

An order for a dozen dozen knives was the most common minimum quantity sold back in the day, a unit of 144 knives.

Gross



Says it all that the folding box cutter is so popular now. Flips open, looks cool, disposable blades.

 

[pinnah]

I think Codger is spot on about people needing knives less today.

Another bit to add is that post WW2 US made an intention shift away from a savings economy to a consumer-driven spending economy. This was most starkly stated by Eisenhower's economic architect who said that the country needed to equate citizenship with consumption.

Interesting treatment of it here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GorqroigqM

I find carrying and using the same knife/knives and using them up makes a good reminder for me. Sort of a talisman.

Dave, the 5OT you generously gifted me has been getting pocket time (along with the Opinel N9, obviously). Neither is spared the stone.

 

[knarfeng]

Let's talk about knives and not ideologies.

Also add in that knives in the early to mid 20th century were not run as hard as they are today. Blade hardness of low 50's used to be common. Now high 50's is pretty common. That makes a big difference in how often a blade gets sharpened.

 

[rma100]

It is also possible that heat treat was not as precise as it is today, with the modern, computer controlled, digital gadgets in use.

 

[jackknife]

The biggest thing we are all overlooking is, they didn't care.

The old knives we see sharpened down to toothpicks were used until they couldn't be used anymore, because they were not just a knife, they were a putty knife, scraper, small pry tool, screw driver, can opener, battery terminal cleaner, and wire stripper. They were abused by our standards because the vast majority of the owners were not knife knits, so they didn't obsess over the knife. It was no more than the .99 cent screw driver of the day. Pocket knives were often sold off display cards up by the cash register alongside combs, nail clippers, and handkerchiefs. Did people get obsessed with nail clippers? Cheap plastic pocket combs?

I've said it before, but our view of things is very highly skewed or warped by us being knife knuts. We cringe if we see a knife being abused by scraping the gunk of the cylinder head before a new gasket goes on, or other such hard dirty work. But to that mechanic, who is not a knife nut, it's all part of using a tool. I have a friend who is a car mechanic, and he thinks I'm totally nuts because of my obsession with knives. To him, it's just another piece of metal with a handle that can used in various ways, not many of which the manufacturer could have foreseen. When it gets dull, he walks over to the bench grinder and puts on a new rough edge that cuts electrical tape, cord, opens boxes of replacement parts, whatever. I think he takes off a quarter inch of blade with each grinder session, but the does't care. It's a cheap replaceable all purpose tool that gets tossed in the trash can when it has no further use. Currently he carries a cheap poor imitation of a SAK, and it's beat to hell, and he'll get something else in a while. I won't recommend a real SAK to him because I have to much respect for Victorinox to submit one their products to his abuse. He doesn't care.

Another guy I used to work with carried one of those Pakistan made Buck 110 sort of knock offs. On breaks and lunch, he'd use it to slice up an orange, or cut his sandwich in half. To sharpen it, he'd go over to the side of the loading dock, and strop it on the cement. It put a rough as a cob edge on it, but did peel an orange or cut cardboard box open. For him, the 2.99 crude mid eastern brass and mystery steel knife was what worked for him because he was not a knife nut, and didn't care. When I once talked to him about using a finer stone, or maybe a diamond hone, he looked at me with a totally blank look and asked why, if the cement on the loading dock got it sharp?

We knife nuts make up probably less than 1% of the total populace of wherever we live. Heck, most people don't even carry a knife these days, preferring to open boxes with sawing with a house key or punching with a Bic pen. So when we see one of those old knives that were sharpened down to nubs, we know the owner was not a knife knut, and didn't care about that knife. It was just a tool to get through his life, and when it was done, shot, finished, he just got another one and went on with his life. To him, it didn't matter.

 

[jc57]

The biggest thing we are all overlooking is, they didn't care.
...

I didn't overlook that, it was exactly the point of my post #18 above, where I said:

But for the most part I think people bought a pocket knife as the original multi-tool and used it. They used them, sharpened them, reprofiled blades using a grinding stone, file, sidewalk, maybe even an Arkansas stone and the result is what you see. If they got too worn down to be useful, they'd go buy another one and toss the worn out one in a tool box in case they needed something with that worn down blade profile.

 

[Shotgun]

I think this trend goes beyond knives to the modern view to dispose and replace something instead of repair. Cars, TVs, cloths, knives, you name it. People replace things long before they are truly worn out. Knife collectors/enthusiasts make up a very small percentage of the knife using population. I'd be willing to bet that most of the people who use knives these days opt for a cheap disposable folder that is lost long before the blade is sharpened to a toothpick.

I agree. I would add that most people don't sharpen their knives anymore either. I have yet to meet anyone in person that even knows the basics of it or even thinks of sharpening as a thing to do. This is also why most people think serrated knives are "sharper" than plain edges. They're only "sharper" because the edge is recessed and it's harder for people that don't know any better to damage them.

 

[Shotgun]

The biggest thing we are all overlooking is, they didn't care.

People don't care now and yet what the OP is saying is that you don't see worn out blades anymore. I think it has more to do with the disposeable nature of our society now than any shift in how people treat their tools. In fact I think the opposite point is more likely. People care less today about pocket knives then they did back then because our world is built to not need them.

 

[kamagong]

The biggest thing we are all overlooking is, they didn't care.

The old knives we see sharpened down to toothpicks were used until they couldn't be used anymore, because they were not just a knife, they were a putty knife, scraper, small pry tool, screw driver, can opener, battery terminal cleaner, and wire stripper. They were abused by our standards because the vast majority of the owners were not knife knits, so they didn't obsess over the knife. It was no more than the .99 cent screw driver of the day. Pocket knives were often sold off display cards up by the cash register alongside combs, nail clippers, and handkerchiefs. Did people get obsessed with nail clippers? Cheap plastic pocket combs?

I've said it before, but our view of things is very highly skewed or warped by us being knife knuts. We cringe if we see a knife being abused by scraping the gunk of the cylinder head before a new gasket goes on, or other such hard dirty work. But to that mechanic, who is not a knife nut, it's all part of using a tool. I have a friend who is a car mechanic, and he thinks I'm totally nuts because of my obsession with knives. To him, it's just another piece of metal with a handle that can used in various ways, not many of which the manufacturer could have foreseen. When it gets dull, he walks over to the bench grinder and puts on a new rough edge that cuts electrical tape, cord, opens boxes of replacement parts, whatever. I think he takes off a quarter inch of blade with each grinder session, but the does't care. It's a cheap replaceable all purpose tool that gets tossed in the trash can when it has no further use. Currently he carries a cheap poor imitation of a SAK, and it's beat to hell, and he'll get something else in a while. I won't recommend a real SAK to him because I have to much respect for Victorinox to submit one their products to his abuse. He doesn't care.

Another guy I used to work with carried one of those Pakistan made Buck 110 sort of knock offs. On breaks and lunch, he'd use it to slice up an orange, or cut his sandwich in half. To sharpen it, he'd go over to the side of the loading dock, and strop it on the cement. It put a rough as a cob edge on it, but did peel an orange or cut cardboard box open. For him, the 2.99 crude mid eastern brass and mystery steel knife was what worked for him because he was not a knife nut, and didn't care. When I once talked to him about using a finer stone, or maybe a diamond hone, he looked at me with a totally blank look and asked why, if the cement on the loading dock got it sharp?

We knife nuts make up probably less than 1% of the total populace of wherever we live. Heck, most people don't even carry a knife these days, preferring to open boxes with sawing with a house key or punching with a Bic pen. So when we see one of those old knives that were sharpened down to nubs, we know the owner was not a knife knut, and didn't care about that knife. It was just a tool to get through his life, and when it was done, shot, finished, he just got another one and went on with his life. To him, it didn't matter.

Your thoughts mirror my own.

Although a pocketknife was more treasured 100 years ago than they usually are today, then as now, people had different levels of sharpening ability. We tend to look at the past with rose colored glasses, where every man had a fine knife in his pocket, kept it scalpel sharp, and knew how to use it for tasks both mundane and extraordinary. That wasn't the case. I've seen plenty of old knives with broken and chipped blades that looked like they were sharpened by a drunk monkey on a sidewalk. I don't know how they got that way and I'm not judging their owners, but I know for a fact that they didn't take care of them as well as I do my own knives.

Truth be told, even if a man from 100 years ago knew how to take care of his knife, I seriously doubt that he lavished the care on his knife that a lot of the people here do with theirs. Think about it, we've seen dozens of threads on how to keep knives polished, how to patina a blade, even how to clean a knife. People have debates on how to best sharpen a blade -- I myself have several Arkansas stones, an Indian stone, sandpaper, strop, and even a Spyderco Sharpmaker to choose from. With these tools and the knowledge I've gleaned from this forum I think any quality knife will easily outlast me to be passed down to my children and grandchildren. I'm more concerned with losing a knife than wearing one out.

But even back then some people took better care of their tools than others. "It's a knife, bonehead!"

Ultimately I think it really does come down to the disposable mentality. Knives no longer get used up because people have so many of them. A knife nut is always looking for the next piece, whether it's because he wants something new/better or needs something to complete the collection. I've even seen this happen with those who aren't drawn to the sharp and shiny. I know of people who've retired perfectly good kitchen knives because they were dull. A knife will never wear out if it isn't sharpened.

- Christian

 

[rma100]

Also, 100 years ago they lived in a more rural, agrarian society. People DID things, FIXED things, BUILT things etc, etc. You don't need a pocket knife to go from your climate controlled home to your climate controlled car and drive to your climate controlled office. Or to go to the climate controlled supermarket to purchase (with a plastic card) a micro wave meal. Or to cut the carefully controlled portion of the evenings mystery meat and then dispose of the leftover packaging in your trash compactor or recycle bin.

 

[jc57]

I grew up in a house (in the south) without air conditioning that used steam radiators for heating. I'm all in favor of climate control.

 

[Raymond1000]

I grew up in a house (in the south) without air conditioning that used steam radiators for heating. I'm all in favor of climate control.

I once worked in Phoenix Arizona. When I arrived people told me, “You’re lucky. You just missed the heat wave.” The temperature had come down to 118˚ in the shade. It was the first place I ever lived where air conditioning was universal.

Construction work normally starts at 8:00 AM and ends at 4:30 PM, with half an hour off for lunch. In Phoenix it ran from 6:00 AM to 2:30 PM. By the time the afternoon really heated up, we could be mopping sweat and sipping beer.

My first job was running barge board and sheathing roofs. It wasn’t in the shade, either. So I never used the AC at home. I figured I was better off letting my body acclimatizing to the heat, and stay that way.

 

[monstrum]

My dad was the same way I have his barrow he carried for the last seven years of his life. The main has a huge recurve,
And the pin blade has been shared so much that when closed the tip is above the handle

 

[rma100]

I grew up in a house (in the south) without air conditioning that used steam radiators for heating. I'm all in favor of climate control.

If you folks thought my comment was about the advantages or disadvantages of climate control, said comment went right over your head.

 

[monstrum]

A subject I've always found interesting. I agree, sharpening techniques of the day for the average person were crude by the standards of our BF family here - methods that would horrify many here in this forum. People had ONE or perhaps two of something if they were lucky and that was it. That knife had to do it all, even things we'd never dream of or attempt with our pocket knives today.

That's the truth for my family. There are thirteen of of us money was always tight. I have my dads old stone. It has a u shape to it. I dint remember my dad's blades being al that sharp (or him having the best tecneq) to sharpen a blade. But he always uesed the knife till it truly dead.

 

[jc57]

I got your point, Bob. There was a different way of life in 1914 than 2014.

I was just mentioning that not all new fangled contraptions are necessarily bad things.

 

[Faiaoga]

My observations concerning knife use come from my Peace Corps experience in Western Samoa. Villagers there use their "sapelus" (machete or bush knife) the way a country farmer uses his pocket knife. Samoa has no tradition of carrying pocket knives or belt knives, so the bush knife is the do-it-all tool. A Martindale machete was used for clearing brush, making a taro patch, cutting grass around the house, gathering firewood, cutting palm fronds for weaving baskets, cutting rope, prying coconut meat from the shell, butchering pigs and everything else - that $5 tool was in use all the time. Sharpening was by file, on cement steps or by hitting two knives together - the blades wore down quickly and handles often broke off.

Many old bush knives were worn down and used again as kitchen knives. Handles were replaced by using slabs of wood bolted on to the blade, strips of inner tube wrapped around the blade and lengths of coconut fiber sinnet wrapped around the blade - no blade was considered too worn out to use. The one common feature was the fine black patina produced by sea water, breadfruit sap and pig blood. The Pacific Islands Knife (village machete) can only be produced through honest and intensive use in the plantation, village and home.

 

[pinnah]

From the Sports Illustrated interview with Bob Loveless.

In fact, if there is any apologizing to be done, Loveless figures that it is owed to him by customers who refuse to treat his work as something of utility, who put his knives in cases and "fondle and drool over them."
"Ninety percent of my knives aren't used!" he exclaims. "And, damn it, they should be out working. That's why I make them. When some old cowboy or guide comes back to me with a knife that's worn down to a nub and he says, 'That thing fit my hand better than any knife I'd ever had, and it worked longer, too,' that's fame. That's what I'm on earth for. A knife is a tool, and if we don't treat our tools with a certain familiar contempt, we lose perspective."