Odd Sheeple Reaction

You know, I've been learning to sharpen on waterstones and there's this big pile of waterstones and whatever knife I'm working on at the end of my kitchen table. I've, in the last month, a bunch of people who, while over for dinner, ask me why I have so many knives (there's about 10 lined up on two magnetic racks behind me) and why I care to spend my time and money learning to sharpen them.

My response, so far, each time, has been to hand them a good, freshly sharpened Japanese knife and ask them to dice an onion for me.

The responses have varied from "Waaaaaaaaaoooo" to "Oh my God where the hell do I buy one of these" to, in one case, the girl simultaneously clearly hearing the choir of angels singing around her head and so instantly depressed at going back home to her normal kitchen knives, that I actually let her buy the knife she was using on the spot.

The handle was too small for me anyway.

(Same thing's happened at lunch at work with a pocket knife and an apple. To people not used to knives, serious sharpness is just an abstraction until they make one a single cut.)

I've been in the exact at-school-with-coworkers-and-they're-trying-to-open-something. I've found that if you just hand them your knife, most of the time they're too busy going "ohhhh, wow, shaaaaarp <drool>" to flip out. I should actually get commission for the number of people I've sent to knifeworks.com and japanesechefknives.com.
 
It's really important, I think, when you're in a photocopy-room type scenario, the difference between stepping in and cutting yourself, and lending your knife to the person whose trying to cut.

If they're unfamiliar with knives, the knife is threatening. And then you step in between them and what they're doing and you *do it for them* - which implies, on some level, a sort of incompetence on their part - it's even more threatening. You're like, "I'm a super-effective dude and you're not, hah, hah," and there's conflict.

If you give them the knife, they're instantly connecting to the primitive tool-using self that lies in the hind-brain of everybody. They're the opposite of threatened... they're suddenly this all-powerful, all-cutting thing and they feel *cool*.

Yeah.

Sorry, I'll stop writing now. Too much coffee, couldn't sleep, stayed up sharpening stuff.

-thi
 
Are you sure your niece was asking a confrontational/argumentative question? Or the one you think she was asking you?

It seems like a pretty beautiful question to me (or maybe I'm just reading into it).

Look at it this way: if she's into art, she's used to museums. That's the context that collecting makes sense to her. When you collect in a museum, you *don't sharpen*, because you're presumably trying to preserve with minimal alteration. No curators going to take an ancient Aztec knife and sharpen it regularly, and, you know, use it. Museum collection is for preservation.

She didn't ask you why the knife you carried was sharp - it sounded like she was asking why *all* your knives are sharp. Which is actually a pretty hard question. I mean, from the persective of a non-collector, non knife-*lover*, I can see a thought like this: "It makes sense to have a few sharp knives that you're going to use. But this is way more than you can use - so maybe he's got his own little museum. That makes sense. But why is he sharpening all of them, then?"

Put that way - it's not a question about you'd want a knife at all. It's a question about you have *so many* knives, more than you need, that you're all treating and taking care of as ready to use - but definitely more than you need for sheer utility.

It's a tougher question about the impulse to have so many of these things, more than we strictly need if they're just tools. It's sort of a question about why we collet the way we do, why we love these things.

I don't know. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. But I teach - college kids, philosophy. This doesn't feel like a dumb question. (But I wasn't there, didn't hear voice tone.) The dumb question are the familiar ones. This feels like she's reaching for something deeper. (Among philosophy teachers, a non-dumb question - a really great question - from a student is a treasure. We hang out and pass them around. This feels like a great question.)

Or I could be full of crap.

-thi

Yours is a wonderfully generous interpretation of the question, and your students are fortunate to have you as an instructor.

That said, my neice knows I carry, at various times, many of the knives in my collection, and she knows I carry firearms. And she is utterly perplexed why. After all, the police will protect me, they're the only ones who should carry guns, blah blah, leftist, socialist, collectivist prattle.

I wish your interpretation was accurate. I surely do.
 
It is a most generous impulse to help non-knife people connect with the value of a sharp tool by loaning them one.

We have many threads on the disasters that occur when they fail to understand what "sharp" implies. My own view is that if they don't have a knife, they probably don't know how to use one safely, and I don't want them cutting themselves with one of mine.
 
This question reminds me of the comment by Jocelyn Elders, a Surgeon General under Commissar Clinton who said, "we must make safer guns and safer bullets." She was serious.

To your niece, knives are evil and the sharpness is part of the evil.

A weapon is dangerous by definition!

I suggest that you give your niece a knife.

I have a nephew who had been brain-washed about hunting until I took him.
This last weekend we took a management doe and watched a beautiful 10 point buck walk 30 yards from us. We sat in 10 foot tripods in 29 degree weather. He loved it.

M.


knives aren't evil. even liberals know that. I am a college student at a university regularly ranked as one of the most liberal schools in the country, even a hippie school. We have a holiday devoted to the consumption of lsd, and on april 20th the entire student body gathers on a hill in the middle of the campus to smoke weed starting at around noon, and lingering until dinner time. At 4:20 on april 20th, someone with an air-horn blows really loudly, then there is a gread deal of screaming and clapping and bubbling of bongwater.

I include myself among "the liberals" at my university. My point is that we tend to have a better grasp on the issues than people give us credit for, and probably better then those people have themselves. When you say Commissar Clinton, I know you aren't seriously trashing him. I whole-heartedly agree that gun control is necessary, and at this point in time even deficient. The truth is that guns have a time and a place. Collecting them is perfectly acceptable, but should only be done by those who can do so safely (i.e. without children playing with them). Owning guns to use for certain things is also fine; if target shooting is a hobby, great. If you hunt deer, fine. But gun laws arent meant to target or limit these activities. The kinds of legal reforms that are needed would be aimed at inner cities. Limiting the damage caused by gang warfare is objectively good, there can be no argument against that. If the cost of doing this is making automatic weapons like uzis, or assault rifles, or any military spec killing machines illegal, then so be it. You can still hunt with your hunting rifle and carry a pistol for target practice or whatever.

Also, the government should limit the use of guns to responsible adults. A three-day background check is a positive thing, and limiting public access to guns as much as possible is a goal that should be embraced, not feared. Gun control does not mean depriving you of your constitutional right to bear arms, it merely qualifies that right by saying: you may bear arms IF you follow all the other rules, and IF you have not proven yourself incapable of abiding by the rules.

So that this won't turn into a political debate (because I know I'm outnumbered on this forum) I will say nothing about the golden era of Clinton, nor of the bush administration. I will only say this:

There are people who have the public good in mind, and people who have their own interests in mind. The most important traits for a politician to have are, as Jefferson said, a disinterested (meaning non-biased, not bored) perspective; and the ability to put the public good above else, even if that means subuordinating his best interests to the good of the people. If you dislike a politician for being self-interested (tantamount to corrupt) then you have good grounds to do so. However, if you disagree with his beliefs, so long as his and yours are sincere, then just because he may not represent your beliefs is not necessarily so bad. If I had to choose between someone who sincerely believed that one path was best for everyone and someone who clearly put his own welfare above the rest, then even if I disagreed with the sincere man, I would choose him over the man who wanted to do what I want him to do, but only because it served his ambitions. Simply put, whether you agree with Bush or Clinton's policies, consider their motives behind the policies and ask who does this help, who should it help, and why do they support this? Does Iraq pose an immediate threat, or did it ever? Why does the UN disagree with Bush, and couldn't they have a point? Ultimately, if you must sacrifice your right to an M-16 so that the government can more easily prevent dangerous people from acquiring one, then isn't that sacrifice worth the public good that comes from it?

"To your niece, knives are evil and the sharpness is part of the evil.

A weapon is dangerous by definition!"

Knives aren't evil, and the dangerous nature of a weapon warrants no moral judgment. Whether your knives are sharp or blunt also doesnt matter. You collect knives. You prefer them sharp. Why keep them sharp? you think that's how they should be, and that's not wrong, but one could also take the stance that keeping them blunt makes them safer to handle and better suited to collecting if they aren't intended for hard use. I personally dont agree with that, but if someone does, it doesnt mean that they are wrong either, or that one belief is more correct than the other.

got off on a bit of a tangent there, but yeah. Just because someone disagrees with or doesnt understand your point of view doesnt make them "brainwashed," or wrong. Two people with the same goal can disagree on the means of accomplishing it, but so long as the goal is compatible and both persons fully informed, some compromise can always be found.
 
You didn't go off on a tangent ... you floated free from Planet Earth. Of course, you DID say you been smoking something.

I would trust a person who was concerned with his own well-being before I would trust someone who was lying to me or to himself by saying he had the public good in mind more than his own.

Gun control is objectively evil: by hampering or denying the common citizen the right to self-defense, you are complicit in his subjugation, whether to a tyrannical government or the pressures of local criminals.

The Second Amendment is not about hunting.
 
We have a holiday devoted to the consumption of lsd, and on april 20th the entire student body gathers on a hill in the middle of the campus to smoke weed

That sounds very illegal (if you are in the United States).



As to why be buy more knives than is absolutely necessary, I would say that it is because I want a knife (or several) for every occasion. It is probably the same reason that other people collect other things, they like them.
 
it's not explicitly allowed, but there is a general sense of keep it confined to this place and we won't stop you. Also, it would be kinda bad for the town (which is very poor and small and depends economically a great deal on the school) if everyone were all of a sudden arrested. No officials talk about it, they just look the other way because they can't stop it.

and I know we're not the only ones who celebrate 420 day
 
You didn't go off on a tangent ... you floated free from Planet Earth. Of course, you DID say you been smoking something.

I would trust a person who was concerned with his own well-being before I would trust someone who was lying to me or to himself by saying he had the public good in mind more than his own.

Gun control is objectively evil: by hampering or denying the common citizen the right to self-defense, you are complicit in his subjugation, whether to a tyrannical government or the pressures of local criminals.

The Second Amendment is not about hunting.


A. I dont do drugs. I find myself in a school with people who do, and the type of person with whom I tend to associate smokes pot. I don't. I did a little in high school. Not for me. I like to drink beer on occasion, but I'm 21 so that's legal, and I would bet my life that no one in this forum will fault me for that. That said, gun control is not objectively evil.
I won't fully discuss that statement because it would require a definitions of the grounds by which it could be made (i.e. what is evil? how do you define evil?)
I will address the self-defense part. People should be allowed to own guns. There is no question there. People should not, however, be allowed guns that will cause more harm than they can prevent. If you can convince me that there is a justification for needing an automatic weapon that can fire 500 rounds before reloading, I will cede my argument and admit defeat. I will maintain, however, that unless you can definitively prove me wrong, allowing such weapons will only create an escalation. I buy a revolver. The guy who robs me buys a shotgun. To protect myself, I buy an uzi, then he gets an ak-47, etc. Eventually you get to a point where non-lethal force is impossible and to defend yourself means carrying weapons with the maximum level of lethalness. Control seeks only to minimize this escalation. Let the law-enforcement officials carry the automatic weapons and they can control the criminals. Allow everyone to carry automatic weapons, and then you need swat teams to catch a drug-dealer.
 
It is a most generous impulse to help non-knife people connect with the value of a sharp tool by loaning them one.

We have many threads on the disasters that occur when they fail to understand what "sharp" implies. My own view is that if they don't have a knife, they probably don't know how to use one safely, and I don't want them cutting themselves with one of mine.

You are most certainly right Essav,if I had lent this woman my knife she would probably have gripped it sharp side up and be fingerless! A knife is a tool and has its place, I mean if you really wanted to you could run amok in a canteen full of people with a butter-knife. Sheeple reactions are largely rooted in the soil of mindless conformity liberally manured with self-righteousness. " You are concealing a knife so you are concealing the wickedness of a malcontent!":eek:
 
bSquirrel,

Everything you state is based on an assumptive formula that you have derived. When you get out of college and start living in the real world, your views may have to change. If you are one of the few fortunate persons who never has to worry about their safety or self defense then more power to you. But if you are able to live this way then you will be removed from the reality of living that the majority of humans must deal with. You will be removed and useless to those whom you think you are helping with unrealistic advice. And yes, you are quickly moving in the direction of sheepledom. You will not even be aware of the implications of giving away freedoms for false safety or protection until it overwhelms you.
 
Let the law-enforcement officials carry the automatic weapons and they can control the criminals. Allow everyone to carry automatic weapons, and then you need swat teams to catch a drug-dealer.

That's just the thing though, when the gun control laws are passed, a great deal of people become criminals without having previously been so, or with no intention of ever becoming one. Just have a look at this "assault" weapons ban that is probably going to pass through Illinois legislature:

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/95/HB/09500HB0873.htm

This will do nothing to stop the criminals from getting guns, it will only make those who had previously legal guns into criminals. Who would you be more worried about, the citizen who went through the proper channels to acquire and carry a concealed handgun, or the criminal who bypassed those channels and is out to harm you? And if you really think that gun laws do keep automatic firearms out of the hands of criminals, see this link in which one of these teens has a H&K g36k, a fully automatic SBR.

http://oncrime.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=recentarrest&action=display&thread=1160194183&page=1

Finally, SWAT teams will always be used to take down potentially violent criminals regardless of the laws and this is because most police chiefs want their boys to go home at night.
 
You are most certainly right Essav,if I had lent this woman my knife she would probably have gripped it sharp side up and be fingerless! A knife is a tool and has its place, I mean if you really wanted to you could run amok in a canteen full of people with a butter-knife. Sheeple reactions are largely rooted in the soil of mindless conformity liberally manured with self-righteousness. " You are concealing a knife so you are concealing the wickedness of a malcontent!":eek:

This is exactly the reactionary attitude that I oppose. If anyone, liberal or conservative, simply assumes their opinions to be somehow inherently superior to everyone else's, based solely on that person's political affiliation, or whatever it may be, then that person needs to reconsider. My point here isnt about who is right, it's simply that one should honestly consider the oppositions stance before rejecting it. I understand Essav's stance on gun-control, and I do not fully agree with him, but I also certainly do not hold it against him that his views and my views are different. I don't know anything about his politics. However, if he wants what I want, and he believes that no gun control is the way to accomplish that goal while I believe that gun control is the way, then there is no grave difference, and a middle ground can exist. If, however, my well-thought out stance angers him (not to single Essav out) simply because I am a democrat, and his knee-jerk reaction is to say "you're a filthy liberal and therefore what you say is false, ergo your opinion is wrong," then I would be less willing to participate in a debate or lend his views credence.


"Sheeple reactions are largely rooted in the soil of mindless conformity liberally manured with self-righteousness. " You are concealing a knife so you are concealing the wickedness of a malcontent!":eek:"

the reason I replied to this thread in the first place is that "Sheeple" is a term that seems to have a negative connotation, and which is associated with liberals, and there seems to be some self-enforcing stereotype of "liberals" as somehow inferior or less well informed. My only point is that when you encounter someone who does know less than you about something, it should be an opportunity to teach them, not belittle them. I applaud the treatment of the subject by the first poster. I dont hope to change anyone's political views, or convince them they are wrong. The best that I could hope for would be to ask you to keep an open mind. Just consider that different doesnt mean wrong, and that it is likely that both arguments have their respective merits.

This could be compared to an economic situation where more than one pareto efficient allocation can exist (meaning no one can be made better off without harming anyone else), but which you choose is subjective. For example, an equilibrium which takes the happiness of the least happy as representative of the whole, or that which considers the happiness of the richest to be that of the whole. From just these criteria, the numbers say that everyone having the same amount, or an elite few having a disproportionate amount of wealth, are equally efficient. Which you choose depends on how you measure happiness and whose well-being you value most.
Not that this example is applicable here, just that it is a parallel. There can be more than one right answer, and just because you hold your opinions doesnt make mine invalid. All I ask is that if you see flaws in my opinions, at least look at their strengths as well, and reflect on your own.
 
This is full of ironies for me because i consider myself a liberal. a gun-loving liberal.

Anyway, collecting fake weapons is not that strange a concept, think of United Cutlery's Lord of the Rings swords or all the fake Katanas that get bought every year. Heck, the ex-CIA station chief that lived up the street from me had a collection of fake (not real) firearms on display in his reading room.
same here, well i guess im more so of a left centerist with socialist views but its easier to say liberal.

maybe its just that i have grown up with the whole idea of knives and guns being tools used for a good reason, they can casue extream harm but should only be used so in extreme situations that you cannot result to anything else.

i get why there are a lot of people that assume that by carrying knives and guns your weird but i really wish more people would learn about them (i personaly think there should be programs in schools to teach people about how to safely use/disarm a firearm so people know how they work and how to use them in a safe maner and i think this will give a better view of them). i also think though that by beign so taken back by it that they are rather closed minded (but i also think that by thinking anyone should be able to carry anything is just as closed minded) .

-matt
 
That's just the thing though, when the gun control laws are passed, a great deal of people become criminals without having previously been so, or with no intention of ever becoming one. Just have a look at this "assault" weapons ban that is probably going to pass through Illinois legislature:

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/95/HB/09500HB0873.htm

This will do nothing to stop the criminals from getting guns, it will only make those who had previously legal guns into criminals. Who would you be more worried about, the citizen who went through the proper channels to acquire and carry a concealed handgun, or the criminal who bypassed those channels and is out to harm you? And if you really think that gun laws do keep automatic firearms out of the hands of criminals, see this link in which one of these teens has a H&K g36k, a fully automatic SBR.

http://oncrime.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=recentarrest&action=display&thread=1160194183&page=1

Finally, SWAT teams will always be used to take down potentially violent criminals regardless of the laws and this is because most police chiefs want their boys to go home at night.


A. the first thing: it is unconstitutional to prosecute someone for a crime committed before it became a crime. If they owned them before they became illegal, then they should not be punished for that.

B. I know the "if guns are illegal then only criminals will have guns" argument. It is valid, and I recognize that. My point is simply that reducing their availability will reduce their prevalence. I think that it is preferable to absolutely have less of them, even if that means that only the worst will have them. The damage that they can do is greater, therefore the less there are, the less damage will be done. Reduce the total potential for destruction and you will reduce the total destruction.

C. This is true as well, but if you start dealing with drug dealers who have high graded weapons, then you will have more civilian casualties and more swat casualties. I am only arguing that the allocation of high tech weapons should be limited to law enforcement.

bSquirrel,

Everything you state is based on an assumptive formula that you have derived. When you get out of college and start living in the real world, your views may have to change. If you are one of the few fortunate persons who never has to worry about their safety or self defense then more power to you. But if you are able to live this way then you will be removed from the reality of living that the majority of humans must deal with. You will be removed and useless to those whom you think you are helping with unrealistic advice. And yes, you are quickly moving in the direction of sheepledom. You will not even be aware of the implications of giving away freedoms for false safety or protection until it overwhelms you.


I do go to a liberal school, but that doesnt mean i am unaware of the real world. Of my friends from home, one got addicted to heroin and started carrying 2 or 3 guns at a time wherever he went. I stopped seeing him when he went down that road. Another friend was released from a juvenile facility when we were 16, and when he was there he had his nose broken 8 times. He had to have reconstructive surgery to cover the damage. He and I are still close, despite a cocaine addiction, and a bad habit of selling drugs. He was, in fact, arrested in a raid of his home.

Your point about me being removed from the issues is semi-valid. I don't live with these issues to such an extent anymore. I moved out of the neighborhood I grew up in to a much safer one. THe extent that i need to worry about my self-defense is to lock my car when I drive through the particularly nasty areas.

However, I still feel that there are certain freedoms that are best sacrificed because I wouldnt want others to have those freedoms either. Remember that it is the role of the government to restrict freedom. That is what it does. The law doesn list what you may do, but what you may not. A law that says "you may not kill/rape/steal/vandalize/etc." is not substantially different from one which says "you may not carry automatic weapons." The best I can do is observe and offer an academic answer. Sometimes the academic p.o.v. misses a crucial issue, but sometimes it can offer innovative and helpful insights. I study economics, and I adhere to a school of thought which would value the whole more than the sum of the parts. Even if a law harms a few, if the good it does benefits more people than it hurts, and it helps them more than it hurts the others, than it is a good law. "do not steal" hurts thieves. "do not kill" hurts murderers. I'm not saying carrying a gun is anywhere near those things, but (for instance) the use of some guns becomes overkill and helps them more than it helps you. Why would anyone need armor piercing bullets? If you need them more than something else, it means you plan to be shooting someone wearing armor. Who wears armor? I dont, you probably dont when you're at home at night, and he probably doesnt either. Why does he need it then? because he wants to be able to break the law and fight those who would enforce it.

This is my own perspective. My real experience is limited to what I have seen my friends go through, as I have tried to avoid trouble as much as I can. Self defense is a broad topic. I would endorse non-lethality, but if everyone can have an uzi, then what good is my tazer or mace or whatever? If an uzi is the standard, then your options in an extreme situation are "kill or be killed." I would much prefer hurt or be hurt, and i would like that to be how everyone felt. I don't pretend my beliefs are better or worse, or more or less well supported. All I would say is that if you find fault in them, look too to the faults in your own arguments, and see if you cant find any validity in my opinions.


same here, well i guess im more so of a left centerist with socialist views but its easier to say liberal.

maybe its just that i have grown up with the whole idea of knives and guns being tools used for a good reason, they can casue extream harm but should only be used so in extreme situations that you cannot result to anything else.

i get why there are a lot of people that assume that by carrying knives and guns your weird but i really wish more people would learn about them (i personaly think there should be programs in schools to teach people about how to safely use/disarm a firearm so people know how they work and how to use them in a safe maner and i think this will give a better view of them). i also think though that by beign so taken back by it that they are rather closed minded (but i also think that by thinking anyone should be able to carry anything is just as closed minded) .

-matt

that's a more concise version of what I've been trying to say. Thank you.
 
Quite frankly this has got nothing to do with labels such as 'liberal' or 'conservative' which are largely American based opposites. The word sheeple is deeply a-political because this type of person is raceless,classless,genderless and timeless I fear. It is a voyeuristic type who WANTS to be shocked, who WANTS to disapprove and gets a frisson of delight everytime they can indulge their passion for being shocked. You can find these types in all walks of life and all societies, they are the thought policeman's best friend as they promote self-censorship and in their unthinking conformity they promote repression.in a word, SANCTIMONIOUS!
 
Quite frankly this has got nothing to do with labels such as 'liberal' or 'conservative' which are largely American based opposites. The word sheeple is deeply a-political because this type of person is raceless,classless,genderless and timeless I fear. It is a voyeuristic type who WANTS to be shocked, who WANTS to disapprove and gets a frisson of delight everytime they can indulge their passion for being shocked. You can find these types in all walks of life and all societies, they are the thought policeman's best friend as they promote self-censorship and in their unthinking conformity they promote repression.in a word, SANCTIMONIOUS!

I had never heard the word used before this forum, but I like your definition. I was only reacting to how I perceived it being used--namely to slander "liberals."

"they promote self-censorship and in their unthinking conformity they promote repression"

very well said.
 
one thing i need to correct, bSquirrel is it LESS THAN lethal not NON lethal,

one thing that has come up a little bit as, i guess, an implied idea is that any one that hasn't graduated college could not posiably have experanced enough to know what they are talking about. ya a lot of sub 20 year olds are stupid, "know-it-alls" who think they are always right and that everyone else coudlnt posiable have better info then they them selves have. maybe it is between my parents and my siblings who are 12 years older than me, maybe its becasue of scouting (and with in that the fact that i am an eagle scout) but as a 17 year old senoir in highschool it really offends me when people assume that i can't be right, i can't know what im talking about or that i cant have good political ideas becasue i havent experanced the world enough yet.

willgoy, thank you. the idea that liberals dont want anythign that can be thought of a weapon has really gotten on my nerves for a long time, your statment of the fact that your political views really not mattering lets me know there is some one else around that can think.

-matt
 
Good arguments. Something to think about... If you compare the availability of illicit drugs, which have been completely illegal for quite some time...
How would you consider firearms would be any different? If there is a market people will find a way to do business.
I consider myself to be a generally liberal leaning person... And I get a real laugh about 'sheeple'. I always knew who these people were, but never had a good label for them until I started reading forums such as these.

David
 
Good arguments. Something to think about... If you compare the availability of illicit drugs, which have been completely illegal for quite some time...
How would you consider firearms would be any different? If there is a market people will find a way to do business.


David

This is basically my point. Restrictions placed on law abiding citizens has no effect on the criminal element. Freedoms sacrificed by law abiding persons only affects them, not the criminals. We have a huge amount of laws on the books right now that cover all the aspects of legal and illegal activities. If they are not being enforced or adhered to then making new ones will only affect those who choose to follow or enforce them. You should never have the attitude that "it is for their own good". You can not save people by taking legal freedoms away from other people. Whenever you think you are being noble and right by throwing away your or others freedoms for the good of the whole you are making a mistake. Every legal freedom that you throw away because of possible illegal activity makes the criminal element stronger and the lawful weaker(And the lawyers richer). By the way, just because items that are currently legal(especially guns) are made illegal does not guaranty that they will be grandfathered in. Many times legal owners are given an amnesty period to either register and/or turn in such items for disposal. If they do not adhere, they are now criminals. If only forced to register, they face confiscation at a later date when new laws are passed because the previous ones did not have the desired effect. This has happened many times in many countries, including our own.
 
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