Odd view of makers?

Crag the Brewer

Crag the Brewer

I make Nice, boring knives
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Oct 18, 2018
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I don't like calling out people, and I'm Not........ But

I was watching a YouTube knife video just now, and Jason Knight of Forged in Fire fame said at Bladeshow.....with all the makers there, only about 1% are designers...... About 9 mins 30 secs


Could someone explain That to me?

Isn't Bladeshow Best of the Best???

*I'm jack squat, and my designs are Mine. Id assume alot those makers are also doing there own work?


He seems far Out there, so maybe I wasn't understanding him?Haha
-he did call me ignorant earlier.....haha
 
I understand where Jason is coming from. Not sure about the percentage quoted but, quite a few makers do not begin a knife project without any preconceived design aspect, be it a traditional skinner, hunter, bowie, dagger, etc. At least some part of the design is borrowed from an already existing design. There is nothing wrong with that. I applaud folks that think completely outside the box and design something truly unique. The problem is, unique doesn't always translate into better, or even comfortable.

The old adage is there is only so many ways to make a knife. The expanded part is, fit, finish and materials are going to set even the humble drop point skinner apart.
 
Maybe he is saying that there are not that many innovators. Many of the knives there are monkey see, monkey do, copying each other or historical patterns although often with a personalized twist. Nothing wrong with that. I do think his estimate is a bit low.
 
navman said:
I understand where Jason is coming from. Not sure about the percentage quoted but, quite a few makers do not begin a knife project without any preconceived design aspect, be it a traditional skinner, hunter, bowie, dagger, etc. At least some part of the design is borrowed from an already existing design. There is nothing wrong with that. I applaud folks that think completely outside the box and design something truly unique. The problem is, unique doesn't always translate into better, or even comfortable.

The old adage is there is only so many ways to make a knife. The expanded part is, fit, finish and materials are going to set even the humble drop point skinner apart.
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Ha! Well we think the same at the very least!😁
 
That 1% could be those makers who have a particular style, like Jason Knight, and a lot of people recognize who made the knife without having to pick it up and look at the makers mark. Jason Knight, Burt Foster and Lin Rhea are a few that come to mind.
 
navman said:
...also, not all knife designers are makers. and in some cases, probably shouldn't be.
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Most probably Aren't.......

Look at all the kickstarter/marketing companies who draw something up, and then make more T shirts and artwork, than knives.....

But Hey, that packaging that it came in was Real nice..... Haha!
 
89.423% of statistics are made up, including this one. Or as Mark Twain liked to say, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

I don't know how true Jason Knight's 1% is (though I suspect it's really really low), I just know his attitude always rubs me the wrong way. He's been very successful and of course I respect that and his work. I was happy when he stopped showing up on FiF though.
 
Jason's actually a super nice guy! Had beers with him a few Blades back and just shot the $%it. He does have some strong opinions.
 
navman said:
Jason's actually a super nice guy! Had beers with him a few Blades back and just shot the $%it. He does have some strong opinions.
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Glad to hear that. Sometimes on-screen or written statements don't give you a good idea about the real person. In my career I tend to do a lot of speaking and I've been told I can come off as intimidating when I really don't mean to -- I'm a harmless little fuzzball.
 
I think Jason's confusing "Design" with "Innovation".
All "Innovation" is by design, but not all design is an innovation.

Unless you're stamping out multiples of the same knife all the time, you're designing by definition.
Design is the reason behind the choices you make when you produce a new knife.
I think most of the makers on here are designing regularly.

Are they innovating? no- probably not, but also that's not what's required, and real innovation is very difficult to achieve.
 
That is my point exactly. Even the most well respected knifemaker still takes inspiration and design elements from other blades. How many FANTASTIC makers do we have that copy Loveless designs? Phil Hartsfield was considered a pioneer at the time, his blades were heavily influenced by traditional Japanese styles. So while low, he may be close when he says 1%.
 
There's a book in my wishlist at amazon called Steal Like an Artist (Austin Kleon) that speaks to how one's art is built on others art. I think it's time to read that, after this thread.

My old friend Bowie Claiborne (RIP) frequently said, "We stand on the shoulders of giants." It's sorta difficult to avoid those influences, eh?

There are a lot of folks just making knives, content or uninterested in being Virgil England or Tai Goo or Cronk. That's okay, too.
 
fitzo said:
There's a book in my wishlist at amazon called Steal Like an Artist (Austin Kleon) that speaks to how one's art is built on others art. I think it's time to read that, after this thread.

My old friend Bowie Claiborne (RIP) frequently said, "We stand on the shoulders of giants." It's sorta difficult to avoid those influences, eh?

There are a lot of folks just making knives, content or uninterested in being Virgil England or Tai Goo or Cronk. That's okay, too.
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I've heard that a lot in business as well. There's a lot that has been tried, learned, and taught that we get to take advantage of to take the next step forward into the unknown, because others made what was previous unknown now a known thing.
 
while I do really enjoy making knives, the thing I like the most is the design aspect. Sure, knives have been around so long that real innovation in design is difficult. So difficult, in fact, that many modern, (especially folder) designs are not particularly useful- they are made to be eye catching and/or gadgety and not much more. I like to think that I can tell a knife designed by a designer from a knife that was designed by a knife user/knife maker

Jason is a friend of mine, and I get where he's coming from. His knives, especially his khukuris, have features which he developed that have been copied ad nauseum, such as the harpoon clip and some of his handle shapes. A lot of time when I see these features incorporated into other people's work, it's like they just slap it on without thinking about the utility or the aesthetic flow of it. It's like the idea is just to capitalize on something someone else did. But, then again, that brings us full circle because in a sense that's all any of us can do.

"don't need to reinvent the wheel, just a better design"
-Pusha T
 
I think what he means, based on that section of the video, is that he puts a lot of thought into innovations that look good and work well, with lots of fine tuning along the way. Whereas he sees a lot of makers producing borrowed designs, or designs that look interesting without considering function as much.

Ah I posted at the same time as Lorien - what he said.
 
You'll see a lot of people doing the <<enter kind of audible jargon here>>... I didn't see anybody doing that back when I first started doing it. I didn't invent it, because it's probably been done before by someone hundreds of years ago, but in the modern era, I'll take credit for it.
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He's just making a sales pitch predicated on some idea that he can tell you the difference between a mere maker or a designer.
I call BS on that. He's just abusing the word "design" to meet his needs for separating himself as one of the elite 1%.

He's no innovator.
 
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