Off Topic: 1911 gov't-size in .45 or full-size Glock in .45?

As said earlier, this is an apples to oranges comparison. That said, both are great pistols but your point of use will determine what suits your needs best. If I'm going to war, I'd take the Glock between the two if they were my only options. Higher capacity and more reliable is the winner in combat. The US Army must agree with that philosophy as well being that Special Forces (Green Berets) get issued Glock 19's.

Luckily, I own Glocks and 1911's so I'm glad I don't have to make that kind of decision. For a range gun only, 1911 wins every time.
 
rcb2000 said:
Great pic kdstrick :thumbup:
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Thanks bro...

One thing I do like about my glocks is the ease and cost of 'fixing' the trigger. They can be made scary light with a trigger kit consisting of a few springs and new disconnecter.

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This thread is making me want a 1911....all I've got are polymer handguns. Even my 357 is polymer. I don't have anything in 45ACP yet either so it would kill 2 birds with one stone. I just need to figure out what i want. What would you guys recommend for an all rounder? I need some options to look into. Trying to keep it under a grand if possible. Don't get me wrong i love my polymers but i feel a need for American Steel.
 
If you can find a Colt Combat Elite (Discontinued) they were priced around $1,000 or so. Colt has the Competition Government Model ($900) and a new Colt XSE Government Model around around $1100 or so-Ruger, springfield, and maybe Smith and Wesson also have models available for under $1,000! I have always shot and liked Colt's but there are lots of other options nowdays-Also the Glock 17&19 or not 45's, they are 9mm and are much more manageable with higher capacity magazines and slimmer Grips- The 45 was designed as a Man Stopper! -Good luck!!
VashHash said:
This thread is making me want a 1911....all I've got are polymer handguns. Even my 357 is polymer. I don't have anything in 45ACP yet either so it would kill 2 birds with one stone. I just need to figure out what i want. What would you guys recommend for an all rounder? I need some options to look into. Trying to keep it under a grand if possible. Don't get me wrong i love my polymers but i feel a need for American Steel.
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My suggestion, go to a range and rent both and shoot both. Buy the one you like most, feels best, shoot best.

I am partial to the 1911. The Glock feels like a brink in my hand and I can't shoot one well, so

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I've been shooting a 1911 for a long time. I think I like that platform for .45ACP.

A friend of mine has a Gen3 slim frame (or whatever it's called) 10mm. I like it, but my preference would be a Glock 40 with the 6" barrel for 10mm.
 
VashHash said:
This thread is making me want a 1911....all I've got are polymer handguns. Even my 357 is polymer. I don't have anything in 45ACP yet either so it would kill 2 birds with one stone. I just need to figure out what i want. What would you guys recommend for an all rounder? I need some options to look into. Trying to keep it under a grand if possible. Don't get me wrong i love my polymers but i feel a need for American Steel.
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Personally I think one of the biggest bangs for the buck are the S&W 1911 E-Series. Definitely worth checking out.



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Sent from my mind....using Tap-a-Thought. (tm)
 
dogboye said:
In general, maybe. In specific, not always, and I have the experience to back it up. SIG516 will choke on less than 60 rounds of Independence ammo, consistently, and become a straight-pull bolt gun. My Rock River DGI will eat it as long as I've tried shooting it. I've not bogged it down with it. So, my 516 has been relegated to safe queen and the occasional target shoot (it IS reasonably accurate); any DGI gets the nod for a working gun.

Similar situation with 1911's and Glocks. I've got hundreds of rounds through a Colt 1911, and over a thousand rounds (easy) through a G19. The 1911 started choking on .45 hardball. The ONE time my G19 failed me was at a match, when a friend found a couple rounds laying on the ground and dared me to use them. I accepted. Shot them in the next stage. One went bang and the gun cycled fine; the other was a dud and didn't fire. That is the ONE time I've gotten to unexpectedly practice a failure drill with that G19.

I've seen numerous stock and doctored 1911's fail in matches. Some to the point the gun was done for the match. I've never seen a stock Glock fail. I've seen doctored Glocks hiccup, but never fail to the point being out for the match.

Either a 1911's or a Glock's accuracy is going to be limited by my ability. But the Glock is going to be reliable. I'll take a Glock any day as a working gun. If you just want to plink around and have nothing on the line, a 1911 is ok. But otherwise, I'll take a Glock, CZ, FN, S&W, SIG, or HK (except P7) if I have to put my life on the line for it. I guess that kinda means the 1911 is at the bottom of my list of pistols I'd trust. Except maybe a BHP (very little experience with those; not many people shoot them in matches). The only guns I've seen be consistently less reliable than the 1911 is an old Luger, and early post-WWII P-38's.

I like the 1911. I like the lines. It is practically a piece of art. And the history can't be beat. And I love my Colt. But it is historical memorabilia for me. Great to look at. Fun to shoot as a connection to history. It when it comes time to turn my back on the static range and take up arms for work, I'll put it in its case, and grab one of the other ones mentioned above, but preferably Glock. I long refused to have one. But now that I have, I trust the design.
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I get your specific experience and can't argue with what you've had happen. That said, a piston driven rifle like an ak47 will and has in my experience be able to run longer with out lube. No maybe involved.

M16 and m4s (shot and carried both in the army) need lube to run lots of rounds, without cleaning.

The dgi, platforms will run dirty as long as they get lube. In most cases an ak47 will run longer and dirtier without lube.

Obviously, when the hot gases and fowling are directly put into the bolt carrier group it creates a coating that makes friction. With lube, that can be alleviated.


While in specific cases, a dgi rifle may run a little longer than a piston without cleaning or lube, it sure isn't the norm.

Edit to add: What constitutes a lot of rounds to me, may be different from you.
 
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mach 5 said:
It is important to distinguish between mechanical accuracy and shoot-ability. In a ranson test OOTB 1911s and glocks may be similar but as I said in an earlier post, most people with equal hours behind both guns will shoot a 1911 style better. The trigger is more precise and the lock time is shorter on a 1911. To all those who post about how well they shoot glocks, I would bet that with equal practice you could shoot tighter groups and shoot them faster with high end 1911s. Discussing the ranson accuracy of 1911s as a class is somewhat ridiculous because the group is now so heterogeneous results will vary widely, while glocks are the benchmark for standardization.

--Pulling Glock triggers feel like turning the crank on a childs jack in the box toy ... just say'n :D

--There is a reason the uspsa open class guns are built on 1911 frames.

--There is a reason you don't see many glocks at bullseye/precision pistol competitions.

--If I had to crawl through the mud to get to the combat zone, I would take a glock, they are models of practicality and reliability.

--Glock barrels do not fully support the case and many people (though opinions differ) feel that +p+ ammo is unsafe to shoot from glocks, but hey they're your fingers :p
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Fiddleback Outpost said:
The Glock vs. 1911 debate is something that will never see resolution and, frankly, probably doesn't need it. As an NRA instructor, I always advise people to use/carry whatever they shoot best. For me, it's a 1911, so that is my EDC (usually a commander size S&W E series w/aluminum frame to lighten the carry weight). Glocks are a very reliable firearm and, if you can shoot one well, it makes sense to use one over a 1911. Personally I prefer Springfield XDm or Sig's P320 for my polymer striker-fired pistols, but I shoot them better and I like the modularity of the P320 to adapt it to various uses/carry styles. But again - use what works for you.

- Marc
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A Glock can be worked to have a surprisingly good trigger, to the point of being comparable to a 1911, with about 20-30 minutes of focused work, and no outlay of funds, assuming you already have the tools. If you don't, you can buy the Glock and all the right tools for less than a 1911. I have both (1911 and Glock) and the tools. I have worked my G19 trigger, and had a friend who shunned Glocks like the 1911 lovers on here say specifically that the trigger felt almost like his 1911. That was without a shortened trigger kit.

shinyedges said:
I get your specific experience and can't argue with what you've had happen. That said, a piston driven rifle like an ak47 will and has in my experience be able to run longer with out lube. No maybe involved.

M16 and m4s (shot and carried both in the army) need lube to run lots of rounds, without cleaning.

The dgi, platforms will run dirty as long as they get lube. In most cases an ak47 will run longer and dirtier without lube.

Obviously, when the hot gases and fowling are directly put into the bolt carrier group it creates a coating that makes friction. With lube, that can be alleviated.


While in specific cases, a dgi rifle may run a little longer than a piston without cleaning or lube, it sure isn't the norm.

Edit to add: What constitutes a lot of rounds to me, may be different from you.
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You will not get any argument from me on AKs' reliability. And the reason I posted the number of rounds that killed my 516 was to negate the "high rounds" argument. The key with the DGI is you can work the bolt and loosen fouling without taking the gun apart. And even if you need to lube, typically it can be done with less breakdown than a short-stroke piston. In any case, for reliability, I think AK is king. I think piston AR's are largely a poor, un-needed bastardization of the AR design.
 
Said by Larry Vickers. The Glock is a pistol for someone who needs a handgun that they'll treat like a lawnmower. They'll use it, they'll feed it but they wont' be tucking it in at night under a blanket in their bedroom. The 1911 is a pistol for someone who's able to act as their own armorer and tune and tune and take care of the pistol before parts go bad. Someone who likes tinkering with motorcycles or other machinery.

Now me; I'm both. I think though I would skew Glock in a situation where my life hinges on the choice of a pistol I had to carry all day every day in any conditons. I'm not in that spot though so I get the luxury of liking both.
 
dogboye said:
A Glock can be worked to have a surprisingly good trigger, to the point of being comparable to a 1911, with about 20-30 minutes of focused work, and no outlay of funds, assuming you already have the tools. If you don't, you can buy the Glock and all the right tools for less than a 1911. I have both (1911 and Glock) and the tools. I have worked my G19 trigger, and had a friend who shunned Glocks like the 1911 lovers on here say specifically that the trigger felt almost like his 1911. That was without a shortened trigger kit.



You will not get any argument from me on AKs' reliability. And the reason I posted the number of rounds that killed my 516 was to negate the "high rounds" argument. The key with the DGI is you can work the bolt and loosen fouling without taking the gun apart. And even if you need to lube, typically it can be done with less breakdown than a short-stroke piston. In any case, for reliability, I think AK is king. I think piston AR's are largely a poor, un-needed bastardization of the AR design.
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We're not to far apart in thought, I have not had hands on experience with piston ar platforms so cannot speak on it in terms of reliability.

Happy new year, brother!
 
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