Oil funds paid for bombers

There are no contradications, Check your premises. Ayn Rand
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Not beyond reason, not insanity, just not rational by our/your standards.

It would be nice if there were one single motivation behind the terrorists. I fear that is not the case. Whether it be individual mullahs, or leaders seeking stature or influence, or political leaders saying one thing and endorsing another, or zealots' fervor in interpretation of a religious belief...this is not AN organization that challenges our societies and our people, perhaps not even closely alligned philosophies or motivations, but rather a terrorist ecosystem that views the United States particularly, and the "West" as a target; a target much like the myriad bugs, mosquitoes, no-see -ums, viruses, bacteria, and predators might view a human in their wilderness. They are not united in their motivation, but directed to the same prey.

The only real unity is the target, not the targeters.

Martyrdom, ethnic hatred, greed, fear, egotism, poverty, ignorance, the desire for power...the list of possible motiviations is staggering. Some it seems culturally unique (not unlike Bosnia), some of it has echoes in the very first of pre-history human behaviors.

I used to be a fairly bright guy. I'm less so now, I know. But if there were ONE motivation, I could maybe come up with some alternatives that might provide a solution. If there were structures that would provide a flow of the necessary food, health care, education, information access, and balanced world-view to the poor and to the passionate...then I'd be able to say...well, let's do this. But the structures don't often exist, and many of those that do exist are so corrupt that funds for improvement are mis-directed to personal gain. I can't even call this issue multi-faceted, for that implies facets on one source or site. This is truly a societal ecosystem of terror.

Iraq may get a government eventually. But generations of people have come to accept loathing of the West as a given in their lives. The imported terrorists from Saudia Arabia, et al, will go on with their respective agendas, impeded only slightly, if at all, by a stable Iraq.


And so it goes....



Be well and safe.
 
How quickly we forget.

Remember when the Mujahadeen were the "good guys" fighting the evil communist invaders and the west was giving them money and guns?

Now the communists have left and it appears, our progeny have turned on us. That's the least sinister possibility...there are more sinister possibilities that many people consider too frightening to look at.

However I don't think it's about a particular ideology. I think it can be reduced to people with power continually screwing those without in order to maintain their power, and those without occasionally lashing back. It happens over here and it happens over there. You can't stop it...the best you can try to do is try to protect those you love and try to get as little of their crap on yourself as possible.

I shoulda bought one of those microwave tower sites when they were selling them off...
 
It is not accurate to suggest that 'we' trained many fighters in Afganistan and therefore all of these terrorists, that this was ever under our control, that we ever communicated with a majority of these terrorists, that they were ever on our side.

Kismet is exactly correct. These terrorists come from many nations for many reasons- only the Great Satan unites them. Until recently, Wahhabi Islam was hated by the rest of Islam. And why shouldn't they detest Wahhabi? It has been blowing up other Moslems for decades!


munk
 
I realize the issue is far more complex than what can be stated in a few short sentences. I wasn't trying to convey that islamic fundamentalism/terrorism was a creation of the west, but that we should weigh very carefully the potential consequences of our dealings.
 
That particular slogan is about as meaningless as 'blood for oil', and you hit a very tired nerve with it. I'm not sure what the authors intend by it anyway; do we deserve WTC bombings then? Play with fire get burned by fire? What utter nonsense. You are absolutely right about weighing consequences of action. Unfortunately, that just isn't always possible, and 'consequences' infer a logical sequence, and guess what? There isn't one!!!

Logic would dictate the first Gulf war earned the US some credit- it did not. Logic would assume if we met the terrorists demands they'd leave us alone; they will not. Logically, if the Palistinians want their own State, they shouldn't dance in the streets when one of their benefactors, the US, gets hit on 9-11.

The Middle Eastern press openly repeats lies about the US. There is no fair shake to be gained. If we pulled out of Iraq tomorow they'd be bombing US streets just as eagerly as if we were still there.

This is going to be a long hard slog. I don't know if Western Civilization will come out the other end of this tunnel or not. It may be bombings have to play themselves out- the 'fashion' of blowing things and people up must decline.

It would sure as hell help if international presses and certain nations stopped reporting these issues as if there were another 'side' to it, as if this was 'fair'.

Did anyone catch that the BBC referred to the bombings in London as 'terrorist' but has refused to refer to other international bombings using the same word??!!

Anyway, Edward Teach; welcome to HI forum. I hope you stick around long to become interested in the wonderful khukuris.



munk
 
munk said:
Ibear? Let's move away from talk of killing, OK?

You can only remove so many threats; it's the process, don't you see? There is a aparatus in motion that produces suicide bombers, and until the process wanes, the bombs won't.

Economic growth will help the Middle East. Transitions of rule that allow more freedom will help. But the process is embedded deep, and we can't extinguish it overnight.

Time, effort, international cooperation, and God's Grace will help.


munk
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Certainly I see... said the blind man to thee! It is the process I detest and it is the killing I hate.... less than the alternative!

Transitions of thought and a change in perspective, takes experience, education and usually quite some time. It is unlikely that terrorists will receive any of these anytime soon. It is more likely that a severe reality adjustment (SRA) could dissuade them from their activity!

Killing is a dreadful subject to confront and nearly impossible to resolve or justify the evil of it's many methods!
Absolutely,

iBear
 
Kismet said:
Not beyond reason, not insanity, just not rational by our/your standards.

It would be nice if there were one single motivation behind the terrorists. I fear that is not the case. Whether it be individual mullahs, or leaders seeking stature or influence, or political leaders saying one thing and endorsing another, or zealots' fervor in interpretation of a religious belief...this is not AN organization that challenges our societies and our people, perhaps not even closely alligned philosophies or motivations, but rather a terrorist ecosystem that views the United States particularly, and the "West" as a target; a target much like the myriad bugs, mosquitoes, no-see -ums, viruses, bacteria, and predators might view a human in their wilderness. They are not united in their motivation, but directed to the same prey.

The only real unity is the target, not the targeters.

Martyrdom, ethnic hatred, greed, fear, egotism, poverty, ignorance, the desire for power...the list of possible motiviations is staggering. Some it seems culturally unique (not unlike Bosnia), some of it has echoes in the very first of pre-history human behaviors.

I used to be a fairly bright guy. I'm less so now, I know. But if there were ONE motivation, I could maybe come up with some alternatives that might provide a solution. If there were structures that would provide a flow of the necessary food, health care, education, information access, and balanced world-view to the poor and to the passionate...then I'd be able to say...well, let's do this. But the structures don't often exist, and many of those that do exist are so corrupt that funds for improvement are mis-directed to personal gain. I can't even call this issue multi-faceted, for that implies facets on one source or site. This is truly a societal ecosystem of terror.

Iraq may get a government eventually. But generations of people have come to accept loathing of the West as a given in their lives. The imported terrorists from Saudia Arabia, et al, will go on with their respective agendas, impeded only slightly, if at all, by a stable Iraq.


And so it goes....



Be well and safe.
Click to expand...
Your points are well taken. Other solutions are welcome! I do not have another solution at this time! It is likely that no other solutions will become apparent anytime soon! In any case, other solutions are welcomed by most sane people!
Thanks,

iBear
 
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