Oil or tar or what for horn handle?

Eikerværing · Jul 12, 2003

This is the first time I try any maintenance of a khukuri handle at all.

My old 1 US dollar khukuri bought in Kathmandu has been in my hands now for 4 years without any maintenance on the horn handle. Finally the end plate of brass has gotten loose. I figured it must be because of a dried out and shrunken handle. So now I have just put the khukuri standing with the handle in a plastic container of boiled linseed oil.

I thought I would leave it there until tomorrow and see what happens. They told me I could use boiled linseed oil for animal horns at the furniture shop. But now I have read in Uncle Bill's FAQ something about using pine tar and lanolin on horn handles. So have I done wrong?

I have got a box of tar and beeswax. Maybe I should have used that instead? I use that for my military boots normally and it really soaks in and makes them waterproof. How would that be for horn I wonder.

Anybody?

But for wooden handles just leave it submerged in boiled linseed oil over night, right?

Semper Fi · Jul 12, 2003

A lot of the forumites here use Hooflex on horn handles. I use it and it seems to do a pretty good job of keeping moisture in the handle. Also shines it up well too.

You can get it at most farm supply/horse tack stores.

Bill Martino · Jul 12, 2003

Thanks, Semp.

Sylvrfalcn · Jul 12, 2003

Eik, if you can't find Hooflex in Norway, just go to the drugstore and read labels on skin moisturizing creams. If you find one with a high percentage of lanolin it should work just fine. I'd be curious to know how the boiled linseed oil works out, that's a traditional finish for birch handles on puukkos, or I guess in Norway you'd call 'em a tollekniv.

Sarge

Eikerværing · Jul 12, 2003

Tollekniv or just kniv.

Actually I just took my saami with a mountain birch handle out of the lindseed oil and put the khukuri into it. 5 years without any maintenance on the saami handle and first now the brass ring got microscopically loose. All fixed now with an oil bath overnight.

The saami is just like some of the Finnish knives I believe.

http://hjem.get2net.dk/vofl/Lilbaek/Finnmarken/kniv.html

http://www.norwayonline.no/company.asp?compid=483

We don't have Hooflex here I think. But I can find something else.

I will tell you how it went with the oil Sarge, tomorrow.

Aardvark · Jul 12, 2003

Some time ago, someone mentioned using 'pharmaceutical grade' (or something like that) lanolin that is available to nursing mothers to prevent chapping. Supposed to have a very high lanolin content.

Semper Fi · Jul 12, 2003

OOPS!

Didn't notice the Norway location. Don't suppose you have many Rural King stores over there.

firkin · Jul 12, 2003

Eik,

Dunno what kind, and how much raising of domestic livestock goes on where you are. Best bet is to ask a veternarian if there are preparations to care for cracked and dry hooves of domestic animals. That's pretty much what the hooflex is. If you can find people that ride horses, or deal with expensive show or breeding animals you're likely guaranteed to find something.

Doubt that anybody uses it on reindeer though.

I actually use a product made for (human) hair on the couple of horn handles I have. The second or third most abundant ingredient is lanolin. Don't have cold, dry winters here though.

Ripper · Jul 12, 2003

I use Kiwi's "Mink Oil", says on the tin that it contains mink oil, silicone and lanolin. I use it for the whole khuk, horn, leather and steel. Worked pretty good so far.
Regards,
Greg

ddean · Jul 12, 2003

Originally posted by Eikerværing
I will tell you how it went with the oil Sarge, tomorrow.

Maybe you'll have discovered a new technique.

Maybe result in more of a 'plasticizing' of the horn.

ddean · Jul 12, 2003

Originally posted by Eikerværing
We don't have Hooflex here I think. But I can find something else.

I suspect

, lanolin may be used in as many products
in your corner of the world as in my corner.

Might do an online search for products in your country,
or ask a pharmacist for product ideas,
or order some from a pharmacy.
Even a small tube of pure lanolin would last a long time.
What about the oft recommended Chapstick
(or your similar lip balms--if any?)

Here you go, a google search for lanolin in norwegian language:
http://www.google.com/search?num=10...=all&q=+lanolin&btnG=Google+Search&lr=lang_no
I assume you are (or otherwise read) Norwegian.
Couple of hundred results listed.
Should give you some ideas of source.

Eikerværing · Jul 13, 2003

Next day:

Not sure how to judge the result.

The handle was very greyish and worn on the surface yesterday. It looked kind of weatherbeaten. One place it also had 30 or so minute cracks in an area as large as my thumb print.

Today, after whiping it clean and drying it in the sun for some hours, it is a shining black, just like when the horn comes brand new from Uncle Bill. And the 30 or so cracks are almost invisible.

But that buttcap is still loose.

Does this mean the oil has soaked into the horn or was it just a treatment of surface? I don't know. It looks brand new now but it didn't expand back to normal size.

----------

Thanks for all the advices about getting lanolin folks.

I already asked in the pet shop for horse hoof products and the only man in the city who sells such things has closed his shop for 3 months. My other alternative would be to get out of town to a horse center, but I don't have a car so no possibility. So I will walk to the city tomorrow and ask in pharmacies and the ladies' shop for some products with a lot of lanolin.

I can't use mink oil Ripper due to personal reasons. Animals in very small cages. I can't do that. But thanks for your well intended tip.

Sylvrfalcn · Jul 13, 2003

Eik, there are more things than just handle shrinkage that can cause a loose buttcap. Try working super glue between the handle and the cap if there's enough of a gap. If not, you might try very carefully tapping the end of the tang protruding through the buttcap with a ball peen hammer until things tighten down. Pad the blade and put it in a vise to hold it while doing this. Work slow and easy, when peening a rivet, etc., a lot of light taps are better than a few solid blows.

Sounds like the linseed oil worked well, and probably stabilized the horn to the point that you need not worry about future shrinkage.

Sarge

Eikerværing · Jul 15, 2003

Thanks again for good teachings Sarge. I will put something under the buttcap to hold it in place. I need to put something under the bolster also.

I don't know if linseed oil worked so well after all. It seemed a success in the beginning, but now the handle is starting to fade again and is more or less looking just like it did before treatment.

But now I got myself some 100% pure lanolin from the pharmacy!

Should I mix it with tar?
50/50?
40/60?
30/70?

Sylvrfalcn · Jul 15, 2003

I need to put something under the bolster also.

Be careful Eik, bolsters are usually full of Laha and sometimes superglue will melt that stuff. Might be best to use a slow curing, two-part, epoxy, and either use a syringe to get it where it needs to go, or work it into any gaps with your thumb.

I've no experience with tar, maybe someone else could offer an opinion on that.

Sarge

firkin · Jul 15, 2003

"Should I mix it with tar?"

Pine tar is probably OK. Some soaps are made from it, and I think it is in hooflex. I'd try the lanolin alone first. Another possibility is petroleum jelly or petrolatum (one brand here is "Vasoline") from the pharmacy.

Wouldn't use ashphaltum or coal tar...

Good guide is to remember that the horn is like your hair and fingernails--don't do things to it that one wouldn't do to hair or fingernails.

(Curling, bleaching, painting are probably not a good idea either...but they aren't really good for the hair or nails anyway).

If the horn wasn't fully cured (one maker cures sheep horn for ten years!) before the handle was made, it may not be reasonable to expect it to swell all the way back.

Eikerværing · Jul 15, 2003

Ok Firkin, I will use just the woolgrease first.

Originally posted by Sylvrfalcn
Be careful Eik, bolsters are usually full of Laha and sometimes superglue will melt that stuff. Might be best to use a slow curing, two-part, epoxy,

I didn't know. I will get some of that two component thing you talked about. I think it must be what we call aralditt. Takes an eternity to dry but is very strong.

But also I wonder. Would it be possible to use solidified sap from a tree? Carve some off a spruce or a pine, melt it and apply it? Solidified sap can be quite hard.

Sylvrfalcn · Jul 15, 2003

Eik, I just came from the post office picking up an excellent 12" AK made by the young kami named Shanker. It's a blem, so there's a crack in the horn handle, and lo and behold the buttcap is loose. Delightful!

Seriously, I couldn't be more pleased. Here I get an incredible knife for an incredible price, and I also get an opportunity to ply the khukuri repair skills I've learned from the good folks here in the Cantina. As an imperfect creature, there's no way I can fix all of my own faults. But, with some elbow grease and a few inexpensive materials, I can make this little khukuri flawless. Absolutely delightful.

Sarge

ddean · Jul 16, 2003

Originally posted by Eikerværing
Would it be possible to use solidified sap from a tree? Carve some off a spruce or a pine, melt it and apply it? Solidified sap can be quite hard.

And used in many cultures throughout the centuries.
Most often mixed with beeswax & either a fiber or rock powder.
The khukuris here are made using the nepali version called laha.
Sometimes you can see a tiny bit squeezed out at the base of the blade.
In the United States this is called Cutler's Pitch or Resin or Cement.
(Also, 'rozil' = cutler's cement, made from rosin, beeswax, and brick dust.)
Often this can be heated gently to re-set it if loosened.

Here is an extensive discussion on the subject & recipes:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=215503&highlight=cutler*+pitch

And another recipe:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=207892&highlight=cutler*+pitch
Originating from:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=189539&highlight=cutler*+pitch

And:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=178167&highlight=cutler*+pitch

And:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=205987&highlight=laha

And last a description of laha:
" here's what Pala has to say in regard to your questions.
The laha which I prefer to call Himalayan epoxy is collected from trees by what Pala called "jungle men". Pala and almost all shops and kamis buy the stuff commercially rather than trying to collect it themselves. It is basically tree gum. It is boiled and then poured into the desired places of the khukuri. The advantages it has are it sets up very quickly, allowing the kami to continue working on his khukuri without setting it aside for 24 hours to let the epoxy set up, and it is also quite strong. "
From: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125703&highlight=laha

Sylvrfalcn · Jul 16, 2003

How'd that buttcap turn out Eik? My little 12" AK blem is now tight as a drum, pristine in appearance, hair popping sharp, and hanging on my rigger's belt under my BDU shirt, just waiting to be "called to active duty".

Sarge