***- OK Guys, here is your chance to tell us what you want to see in knives -***

As sort of an addition to anthony cheeseboro's idea about < 3" blades, I think that there should be multiple knife sizes for the same model. CRKT does this too, but they're not as concerned about getting blade length under legal limits.

There should be a knife clearly under 3", a larger version under 3.5", and one just under 4", etc. If it's not economical to have so many versions, I guess just one under 3" and one over that would give buyers the choice to buy knives to carry at the office.
 
Good point Shortgoth,

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Let's try to limit the rest of this discussion to just ideas about how the company should interact with the consumer and even dealers (dealer only to chime in on this issue please).

I made the test above HUGE so everyone would see it. I am in no way yelling :D
 
Well.

24/48-hr (business days) human email turnaround on customer service questions.

Fully updated website, with blog-style news structure, updated regularly with new products within a few days of public release.

Rumors and gossip page. ;) hehehh.

Good photographs, preferably from all angles for more popular/major products (or QTVR style rotating pictures (yum)).

<shameless industry self-promotion> Hire a qualified, experienced information architect/interaction designer to structure your website. Compatible with ALL MAJOR BROWSERS, not just IE6 with FlashMX for Win32. </shameless industry self-promotion>

Competitive price tiering with retailers/dealers, OR offer exclusive-only designs through the corporate site, at reasonable markup.

Was that more on-track? :P

-Jon
 
Mike, sorry I'm late and am outside your specific request for info. I could very easily lose my job within the next two weeks, I'm 60 and this would really screw with my retirement and affect the rest of my life. I have a knife collection with a current wholesale value of well over 10K - I may well lose my collection to have funds to survive. The thought of sending business / work off-shore in these hard economic times is , to me, absolutely REPUGNANT !! If your off-shore plan comes to fruition, I'm sorry to say, I will BAD MOUTH your endevour to my dieing day. Please re-consider your decision and use US materials and labor.
SIncerely,
 
OUCH, OUCH that hurts.

Think about what you are saying. I am starting a brand new company and you have the audacity to bitch at me when US knife companies have been doing this all along? WAKE UP! I am sorry you are losing your job but the facts are that whoever you work for did not keep up with reality. It is sad, but let's look at other US companies who make products oversea before you bust my chops, AND MY CHOPS ONLY.

Gerber just launched Carolina Knife and Tool with 100% China made products. Can you please show me a post where you busted their chops? I doubt it.

I am not trying to be mean here and I understand that you are losing your job to competition from overseas factories but there are other ways to vent your frustration. Your government is causing this, not me. You can bust my chops all you want but I am at least BEING HONEST ABOUT WHERE MY STUFF WILL BE MADE!

I could be like other companies and make stuff in China and Taiwan and mark it made in USA! Hey Smith & Wesson, you listening? But I don't. I know who makes what and where they make it. IN FACT, the very factories that I know have a little vested interest in make products for companies you all are familiar with!

A funny thing just happened the other day. We received a shipment of knives that are marked "XYZ" company. We called the company and we are forwarding the shipment directly to them even though we sell the EXACT same knife, NOT a knock off, for 25% of the price you are currently paying. Funny huh!

Seriously, I am not the bad guy here. You can say I am adding to he problem if you like. But history dictates that US manufacturers are always looking for ways to make things cheaper so they can be more competitive. If you are so pissed about this then throw away your computer and move to the woods. Heck turn your keyboard over, and you will see it is made in either China, Taiwan or anywhere but here. So each time your fingers hit those keys busting my chops, remember that the very devise you are using to bust my chops was made by some other nation. (Turn your mouse over to, and look at the back of your monitor!) I could go on.....

I will be happy to join you in Community and we can have some intelligent conversation about this subject.

Suggestion, when you see a problem coming on, and coming on strong, figure out a way to make it work FOR YOU and NOT AGAINST YOU. Is it my fault you did not prepare yourself for this? NO! Is it your fault you did not see it coming? YES.

I am not sure what you do for a living but please, you are 60 years of age and I hope like hell you have some sort of retirement to fall back on. I am not trying to be cold here, I am trying to be realistic. We now live in a GLOBAL economy. If your company has been affected by this then you need to walk into your bosses office and bust his chops, NOT MINE!
 
Also

Why, for example, aren't we hearing about Toledo, Ohio? Chrysler operates a Jeep factory there that employs nearly 4,000 workers. One out of every four vehicles these American workers make are sold overseas. Other companies depend even more on exports: Awareness Technology, Inc. of Florida, which makes laboratory equipment, saw its sales to foreign markets grow 38 percent (to $5.2 million) between 1995 and 1999. Three-quarters of its jobs are directly supported by overseas sales, according to the U.S. Trade Representative's Office.


Foreign markets have also helped companies such as Milgard Manufacturing, Inc. in Washington state grow by leaps and bounds. A glass manufacturer, Milgard started in 1958 with five employees. Today, it's the largest window-maker in the western United States, with nearly 2,500 employees in 14 states who sell Milgard products in countries such as Canada and Mexico -- and even as far away as Taiwan.


Free trade also allows foreign companies to operate on U.S. soil -- and create jobs for Americans in the process. More than 2,400 foreign firms operated about 5,700 businesses here in 2000, according to the Directory of Foreign Firms Operating in the United States. They paid, on average, 12 percent more than domestic firms, and they helped Americans enjoy lower prices for a variety of goods and services.


In addition, these foreign firms indirectly create many other jobs for companies that supply their factories or that serve their personal needs -- such as restaurants, retail stores and supermarkets. A 1998 University of Michigan study found that every job created by a foreign auto maker leads to more than five spin-off jobs.


And most foreign companies that open plants in the United States buy the parts here to save money -- which leads to lower-priced products and even more jobs. The four plants Honda operates in eastern Ohio, for example, use tons of steel, but they don't buy the raw material. Their suppliers buy it, turn it into doors, fenders and other car parts, and Honda buys these finished components.


This process also shows why protecting the steel industry makes no sense. The old argument for doing so -- that America needs a large steel-producing sector to fill emergency wartime needs -- doesn't wash. We already manufacture three times the steel the military could need for even the biggest buildup.

And for every steel worker, there are 57 in industries that buy and use steel. High tariffs and other protectionist measures only make their work less profitable, their products less competitive, and their jobs less secure.


Economic policies should benefit as many people as possible, and policies that promote free trade do that. They don't lead to a net loss of jobs, as opponents claim. Imports jumped from $62 billion in 1950 to $1.3 trillion in 1999 -- which coincides with the most rapid and thorough streamlining of manufacturing processes in world history. Yet despite the 2000 percent increase in imports and the gargantuan rise in labor-saving devices, the number of manufacturing jobs remained relatively constant over this period.


But stories such as the one on "World News Tonight" do more than leave out the good news about free trade. This fear-mongering about trade has consequences. No one talks about the $2,040 in savings that foreign trade brings to American families each year. No one highlights the jobs it supports. No one notices that a third of our farm sector is devoted to foreign trade.


And so there is far too little discussion of how much better off we'd be financially if President Bush had Trade Promotion Authority (formerly known as "fast track"). Today, the United States is party to three of 131 trade agreements around the world. The European Union is party to 57. Why?
 
First of all, let it be known, this is Karin (Battleaxe) wife of Easyrider and these are my opinions.

Mike makes some good points in his comments but I think you are carrying a simple opinion too far. I can see Ouch's opinion as well, but I think Ouch needs to realize that we shouldn't be a nation of ethnocentricitics. He also shouldn't get angry with you, just vote with his wallet and refuse to purchase your products. That is all any consumer can really do.

The US makes products and I feel they make them well unfortunately the costs are sometimes too high for the American public. We have become overly dependent on imports. We have become a society who always needs the latest and newest product and that is where the foreign corporations have a hold on us. There exists a negative trade imbalance with the US and I don't see it changing soon. We import far more than we export, look at all the electronics or vehicles. What would happen to our country if some of these items such as electronics were cut off or even too high of a tariff were assessed? Computers are used extensively throughout the US industrial complex. How would that impact our ability to continue a sustained conflict? If we are not able to obtain the electrical components, how do we build guidance systems? We could make them but it would take a long time to ramp up the type of production required. Even Harley Davidson uses some type of foreign componenets in their motorcyles. Our extensive dependence on foreign products can hurt in the long run. We are turning into a service oriented society instead of manufacturing our own. One of the driving forces is that US wages are higher than some the countries, for example Mexico.

You wondered why we should protect our steel industry? If Honda has a factory here and there isn't a steel industry remaining then Honda either has to move out of the country or import steel. Either way we lose jobs. Mike has ignored the political forces at work. Our steel industry is not as modernized as Japan. Japan was required to rebuild their steel industry following WWII. Our steel industry has not kept pace. Washington will not allow the steel industry to fail, large corporations that have strategic importance are not allowed to fail. This is much like the rice situation in Japan or the wheat situation in this country. Japan can buy rice from the US much cheaper than they can produce it themselves. They will not buy rice from the US because it is considered a staple. The product is so closely tied with their countries heratige it is unthinkable to procure it outside the country. The steel industry in this country is treated much the same way. One of the reasons why the government bailed out the airline industry following 9/11 is for strategic purposes. In time of war the airlines are then turned over for troop transport. They did it in Desert Storm to move troops. Should we allow the aerospace industry to fail simply because Airbus may be able to produce a less expensive airliner? What would happen if the supply of spare parts was to cease? World trade is a good thing. I firmly believe that because the world is becoming a smaller place the importance of balanced trade takes on a great importance. We can not let economic forces control all the decisions, in fact political and economic policies are codependent. It is impossible to discuss economics without including the political forces involved when economic decisions are made. This is true for both governments and companies. Does it make a difference if a pocket knife is made overseas or here in the US? In the larger scope of things, probably not. Does it mean that a person should not vote with his pocketbook according to his philosophy? Of course not. Mike, am I condemning you for manufacturing a product overseas? No I am not, but should Ouch be condemned for his knife buying philosophy? I don't think so. You asked for opinions concerning a new knife company and Ouch did what you asked. Mike, in my opinion, you should not have responded the way you did. If you do not want all opinions don't ask for any.
 
...I for one am starting to come around to the idea of overseas manufacture. It just makes good horse sense.

If you're wanting to start a knife company with profit/return as your top priority, then you definitely want to crank out as many mediocre-to-reasonable quality knives as you can, as fast as you can. You want to save money on production, materials, and labor to maximize return. Securing gross sales with dealers is probably your main concern once the knives leave the table. Look at the success of Kathy Lee Gifford's Wal-Mart line of clothing, for instance.

If you're wanting to turn out truly exquisite knives made with ongoing ingenuity, attention to detail, high-end quality, and the ability to immediately oversee production, then American manufacture is the way to go. The price will run the end user more, but chances are pretty good you're going to turn out a superior product with a lot of ongoing thought and room for innovation attached to them. Warranty issues and customer service would certainly be easier to handle as well...

So, I reckon it's all about what you're wanting to do. Business is business, and that's the "American Way."

Professor.
 
Professor,
To imply that using overseas manufacture will dramatically reduce the quality of the knives is very misleading, personally i will take Spyderco fit and finish over Benchmade any day.
As i've mentioned before, some overseas factories put out very high quality stuff.
I seriously doubt that Mike Turber is intent on being part of a venture that plans to 'crank out' 'mediocre to reasonable quality knives', and i also seriously doubt that it will be a 100% US venture. I'm pretty sure the idea is to put out maximum quality knives at minimum cost to the consumer, i'm sure the materials and manufacturing facilities have been/will be chosen very carefully with this in mind.
You have a good point about the warranty/ customer service issues and overseeing of manufacture, however i doubt that these would be enough to alter the location of the facilities.


I think e-mail response time is very important, a few people on the forums have reported waiting weeks for a response from a company by e-mail, this is a poor reflection of the company. 24/48 hour response would be indicative of good customer service.
 
I see what you're saying. This would be the very first company of it's kind...

Staying away from steels like 420J2 and AUS6A?

Maintaining consistency of lockup with no paper-thin linerlocks?

Good blade grinds?

No corners cut, like with threading screws straight into G10 scales, etc? No single-sided liners?

No "Ninja" emblems on the blade?

No cast aluminum?

If that's the case, I'm with ya!

Professor.
 
Anyone that thinks that Spyderco is better fit and finish than Benchmade has been drinkin' too much Bushmills.
 
Anyone that thinks that Spyderco is better fit and finish than Benchmade has been drinkin' too much Bushmills.
Lol, either that or we have experience of both brands and have an informed opinion on the matter ;)
 
I again apologize if I sounded harsh but this thread should stay on topic and any other issues should be presented in "Community".
 
Mike, you did come across as rather harsh when replying to Ouch, but you have apologized and that should be enough for the subject to die.
If I understand the original question you posed, you are interested in determining what the consumer wants to see reguarding the operation of a knife company. Customer service come to mind immediately. A quick response to inquiries as well as problems that will arise. To go beyond that I feel a knife company in todays market has to give both value and innovation in their products. Does that mean old designs are not viable? Certainly not, look the Buck 110, this basic has been around for quite some time and still sells well. It is an example of great value, plus Buck has a wonderful customer service reputation. I have used Buck's customer service with great sucess, you could do far worse than use Buck as a guide for setting up your customer service/warranty department.
I'm sure you are aware of the power of the internet, a strong presence on the internet will be neccesary. I believe that REKAT may have missed an opportunity to capitalize on the internet when they closed both their forum here and their website, I trust you won't make the same mistake. You also need to define the target audience your products will be aimed at. For myself and I suspect many people who visit Bladeforums a low end production knife won't be of interest to them; I question how valuable the feedback you receive here will be, since many people here only look for the high end blade steels and handle materials. I'm interested to see what Dragon Forge Knives brings to market. Good luck Mike with your latest business venture, it should prove interesting to see how Dragon Forge Knives progress.
 
When you order a Khukuri from Uncle Bill in the Himalayan Imports Forum, it is shipped within the hour.

As a customer - that's a service that can't be beat and has literally guaranteed return vists (which = sales) for Bill.

No excuses - same day shipping is tough, but in the knife business, nobody stops at just one...
 
I have to chime in on this one cause there are several things that would help with sales. First of all have your own forum, I think that being able to talk to people like Andy Prisco and Will Fennell really helps when making a decision about a knife plus it makes an excellent sounding board for manufactures. Secound I agree with others about the quick response to e-mails it really helps when you can ask a quick question and get a quick answer. I think you good on price range the Lile regular seems to be priced well, but you might wanna do what CRKT does and offer better steel choices for higher prices.
 
Back
Top