Ok, I admit it ... I might be a hand sanding convert

C

Cushing H.

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I’ve had a few knives recently that I struggled getting to where I wanted them to be on the grinder ... especially longer or thinner stock kitchen knives. I have for a while known the technique taught by nick wheeler (and have rudimentary equipment to do it) ... and so have gone that route to try to “correct” the problematic knives.

I will have to admit that with a reasonably close (In flatness) surface to start with, things actually go pretty quickly, and it is easy to control and FAR less likely to create a quick “oops” defect than a grinder. Also no / little chance of overheating the edge (and fewer burnt fingers). It actually also does not take much more time than messing around on the grinder. And yes, as some have commented, in its own way it is pretty relaxing.

So, don’t have it be said that I will not “eat crow” when appropriate.
 
To avoid botching my recent batch of tantos, I moved from the grinder to hand tools at a pretty conservative time.
I got the bevels exactly how I wanted them, but it took more time than if I was better/more confident on the grinder.
 
I tried hand sanding on my first few blades. I found it useful for blending things and hiding mistakes in the grind. Doing it was by far the most irritating and boring part in making the knife though.
Since then my grinds have improved, and I started using Scotchbrite and cork (with grit) belts and for now there is no looking back.
 
You know, about a year ago I said I did not want to hand sand ... and got absolutely hammered for it. Now I say the opposite .... and comments about not hand sanding. Sheesh... can’t you guys make up your minds?? :-) :-)

by relaxing, I don’t mean physically easy ... I mean less stressful in that you don’t have concerns about burning an edge or accidentally digging the belt in in the wrong place. Easier to concentrate on a specific location without worrying about messing something up an inch or two away from that place...

scaniaman ... I don’t know ... if my grinder technique improves more maybe I can go back to just the grinder. I also use the scotchbright finish .. but Even with that On larger blades I see inconsistencies that show through the finish. The hand approach, for now, seems relatively straightforward for eliminating those inconsistencies...
 
I hand sand 99.5% of my blades, have for many years. It's all about how you set it up off the grinder. If I come off the machine at 400, I can skip straight to 400 Rhynowet and have a regular 154CM hunter hand sanded in 20 minutes or so. Another trick worth mentioning, EDM stones are great for cleaning up those pesky deep scratches in the plunge area.
 
i used to "fix" my grinds between belt grits by hand with the same grit starting at 120. the blade would have so many facets, it looked like a stone indian arrowhead because i could not hold my wrist at the exact same angle. especially with double edged grinds and anything new i had not tried yet. it saved a lot of blades along the way.
 
Here is a trick that really cut down on the amount of hand sanding required.
If you really need to remove some metal, start with a fresh 80 grit "J" belt, then a 220, then finish up with a 400 grit belt. You'll be amazed how good the blade looks.
 
john april said:
i used to "fix" my grinds between belt grits by hand with the same grit starting at 120. the blade would have so many facets, it looked like a stone indian arrowhead because i could not hold my wrist at the exact same angle
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I actually do not have much problem with flat (or nearly so) grinds. More what I have been running in to is some slight .... call it "non matching" of the bevel at the tip of the blade, and something more like visible finish imperfections along the length of the blade. the former I put up to cowardice in trying to grind too much at the tip of the blade (for fear of burning the tip), and the latter I put up to missing grinding out larger grit scratches before moving up to finer grits (and this does not show up until you get the the final finishes). Gettting things pretty close to flat off the grinder at something like 220-320, then going back down to 120 grit by hand, it gets really easy to see and remove those imperfections and get the final finish much more uniform. Now .... trying to take a multi faceted bevel and try to flatten it by hand??? THAT would be painful..... (ask me how I know .... that was my first year-ago bad experience with hand sanding......)
 
Ken H> said:
Here is a trick that really cut down on the amount of hand sanding required.
Click to expand...
Because I haven't had a large diameter wheel, I was doing most all of my grinding against the platen. The only 'problem' with this is that there's a huge surface area in contact with the belt/platen which heats up the blade, belt and platen a lot faster and wears out belts a lot quicker, which wasn't a problem when I was employed and could "use 'em like they were free". I'd recommend not doing this for the entire grinding process, but rather use it to clean up the flats before moving up to the next grit. I now have access to a 10"dia wheel and am curious to see how much longer the belts last, as well as how many blades I screw up by doing most of my grinding there.
 
weo said:
Because I haven't had a large diameter wheel, I was doing most all of my grinding against the platen. The only 'problem' with this is that there's a huge surface area in contact with the belt/platen which heats up the blade
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the other thing .... as others have pointed out .... is that the platen is not necessarily "flat", and can develop concavities during usage. this might be partly solvable with a ceramic platen cover .... but I do not have one (and am not sure I want to play with one)....
 
Cushing H. said:
this might be partly solvable with a ceramic platen cover
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I'd say mostly solvable. Grit from the back of the belt can build up on the glass, but is easily scraped off with a razor blade or some other scraper without damaging the platen.
Cushing H. said:
but I do not have one (and am not sure I want to play with one)
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Out of curiosity, why not? They are relatively inexpensive (<$20 IIRC) and easy to install.
 
weo said:
Because I haven't had a large diameter wheel, I was doing most all of my grinding against the platen. The only 'problem' with this is that there's a huge surface area in contact with the belt/platen which heats up the blade, belt and platen a lot faster and wears out belts a lot quicker, which wasn't a problem when I was employed and could "use 'em like they were free". I'd recommend not doing this for the entire grinding process, but rather use it to clean up the flats before moving up to the next grit. I now have access to a 10"dia wheel and am curious to see how much longer the belts last, as well as how many blades I screw up by doing most of my grinding there.
Click to expand...
I have been using vsm belts and do mostly hollow grinds on a 10” wheel, I take a worn 36 grit to grind 45 degrees to scribe lines then switch to a 60 grit belt, I do all of my grinding post heat treat and can get 6-8 8” kitchen knives out of one 60 grit belt then I move to a 180 trizact belt before going to a blue scotchbrite belt. I’m trying out some blaze belts now to see how they perform but for comparison doing flat grinds I feel like I only got maybe 2, 8” chef knives out of a belt before feeling like it was done. I found switching to hollow grinds I’ve been able to better control and dial in geometry on my knives and for some reason it’s easier for me than flat grinding, once you get the hollow established the blade just sits in it and it is very easy to control, just finished rough grinding a 30” arming sword with hollow grinds coming in to a central ridge for a diamond cross section and was able to keep a pretty crisp ridge centered the whole way down with no jigs or tool rest. Setup your grinding at a good height lock your arms and away you go.
 
weo said:
Out of curiosity, why not? They are relatively inexpensive (<$20 IIRC) and easy to install
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because I am too aware of what can happen if they slip off and get ground between the belt and idler wheel. while I always wear face protection .... I am not a fan of picking pieces of ceramic out of my skin, and cleaning up the floor and all other surfaces for a distance of 30 feet or more from the epicenter of the ceramic explosion....
 
weo said:
I'd recommend not doing this for the entire grinding process, but rather use it to clean up the flats before moving up to the next grit.
Click to expand...
You are correct, and I should have made my statement a bit more clear. I always do the bevel grinding on a flat platen with https://www.ebay.com/itm/372048391204 hi-temp glass. The flat type grinding shown in linked video is ONLY for cleaning up the bevels post grinding with a flat steel platen covered with graphite to help cut down on heat buildup. While the graphite covered platen might not be a perfect flat, it blends everything in so it looks flat. A touch up with hand sanding really makes it look good with only a few minutes at each grit.
 
weo said:
...10 seconds to download a video???? what kind of piece of crap is this?!? I need a new 5G phone:rolleyes:...*sigh*...youngsters...:(
(j/k you twoo_O.....kinda;)).
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I remember having an 8K computer that I had upgraded to 32 Kilobytes... and a phone phone modem. I would start an upload and go eat dinner while it loaded. When I went to a 128K motherboard I thought it was heaven - it only took 5 minutes to upload a file. I hear the gals at the store fussing when a site won't open in two or three seconds .... sigh* youngsters!
 
Cushing H. said:
because I am too aware of what can happen if they slip off and get ground between the belt and idler wheel. while I always wear face protection ....
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You know this doesn't happen very often right?
All you need to do is put a little tiny shelf under the glass, then the chance of it breaking is even smaller!

It's like not flying because planes might crash... I suppose some are just more risk adverse than others.
 
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