OK, I am humble-How do I learn to grind?

H

hollowhandle

Joined
Jan 24, 2001
Messages
70
I've tried to teach myself and I know that practice,practice,practice will get me to carnagie hall but...
I've been working at this for about a month and I think that I can profile a good looking blade and I have slack belt ground what I would call a decent looking little knife ( boy do they get smaller the more you grind)
I've been trying to flat grind and I dont think it is working.
I have several different grind angles on each side. I think I am holding it at close to the same angle but that is not the case.
Don't mention the grind line, mine does not have that nice even transition.
My problem is probably that I have never actually seen it done.
Is there a video that will actually show the steps?
Should I track someone down in my area and beg for the knowledge?
All of this and I have not enen tried the dreaded hollow grind.
Thanks in advance.
hollow
 
I found Allen Blades Videos useful, as well as Hrisoulas video. True, Hrisoulas video is on pattern-welding primarily, but he hollow grinds a double edged dagger in one pass per bevel on a 1.5hp machine. And it's only $20 to see someone forge, weld, grind, heat treat, make fittings and assemble a blade from components. All kinds of useful hints that are just hard to figure out if you haven't watched. You can order it from his website, http://www.atar.com/ , or find it on eBay, since he's rather tough to get ahold of lately.
I've also found using a high quality bastard cut file (Nicholsons are nice) to establish a good flat, then I can follow that flat and use it for a visual and tactile reference. Then I use it again to clean up all the little facets I still end up with. :D
Hope this helps.
 
You should really find a maker and visit their shop! I have done that once, and I'm doing it again real soon.

Also, videos are great. Allen Blade's flat grind video I have, and I love it. I don't know how easy Allen is to get a hold of these days though. The ebst part of the video is that it is entirely on flat grinding. he makes mistakes in the blade and shows you how to fix them.

Osbourd: I looked i Jim's site, but couldn't find any video! Can you help me out?

hollowhandle: Here's a few tips that I learned:

I have only ground 440-C, ignoring hte one piece of 1095 that I ruined and chucked out! It comes with that black scale on it, but I leave it on. I know when I'm done grinding because I am at my center lines at the edge and the black scale has almost disappeared at the top. That sure helps when grinding to keep things even.

to make sure your grinds are flat, make sure your platen is flat. Mine isn't perfectly flat, so I have a few problems to overcome there. A 2" grinder is MUCH better than a 1" grinder at doing the job. If you are on a 1x30, you're gonna have to learn some awesome control.

When I am grinding, I don't start at the plunge. I touch the knife to, say, the middle, and grind INTO the area where I need precision and control. Plunges and tips need more control, so try starting in the middle.

If you are getting a multi-faceted tip like I get all of the time, it is because you aren't grinding the tip at the same angle. That just takes practice I think. You have to pull the blade away from the platen at the same angle each time, or else you get all of those grind lines. Again, this is easier to do on a 2" grinder.

Good Luck
 
It would be best, If you could find some one to watch,

But, the problem you are having with facets on your bevel edge, is caused by changing the angle, even slightly, during grinding.

I know you are frustrated, but keep up the practice, you'll get better. take a piece of wood and cut a notch in it. so that the blade restd in the notch and is heldat a constant angle.

I've seen several different types;
1)a 2x3x3 block clamped to the table the blade slides in the notch and is held at a constant angel against an abrasive disk
2)an eight inch stick with a notch helps control a blade on a small wheel disk or belt.
3)a 2 foot stick, held in the armpit, or 6 foot piece resting on the ground gives a refrence on a large stone or belt with no table or tool rest

I have used this type of rest to put prefect bevels on 12in double edged dager blade.

I hope this is helpful EE
 
No problem Hollowhandle. Send me $1000.00 cash and I'll have my instructor, Mr. Mayo, walk you through the first one.

Tom, vacation time!:p
 
My apologies, he doesn't seem to have the video on his site. I tracked down the publisher, Paladin press. http://shop.paladin-press.com/Store/prodinfo.asp?prodid=3187

They have some pretty freaky stuff, if you get a chance to browse it. It sells for $30 or so plus shipping from then, but I found it on eBay for a buy it now price of $21. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1448533043
so I'd go with that if you have an eBay account.
Hollowhandle, who told you that hollow grinding was dreaded? I find it much easier to do, and even kinder to belts than flat grinding, and I know I'm not alone on this.
 
Texas Knifemakers Supply sells the Hrisoulas video for $19.95. At least, that's what I paid six months ago.

Brett
 
Without question, try to find a maker that will let you watch for a while.

Videos are the next best bet. I agree that Alan's video, Hirsoulas's, and Loveless's video are all helpful in grinding.

I'll have to disagree with Osbourn though, nobody grinds a dagger in one pass. Better go back and watch in again my friend ;) It'd be great if they hadn't edited out all the other passes. He is FAST though.

And after that it's practice. I like to grind at belly-button height, as do most, but you'll have to experiment with that part.

To me the more difficult grind is the one you don't learn first.

Good luck,
Nick
 
Nick brings up a good point. You have to find what feels right for you. One problem you may need to overcome is slack belt grinding. It has it's place but IMHO not to learn. It's hard to give good hints via the internet. Much of grinding is feel. You just know when it's right. A lot of us have BAD habits also. They work for us but will start you in the wrong direction.

I guess what I'm saying is that you have already gotten the best advice possible. Visit a local knifemaker. Watch him and talk to him and get some mild cheap steel and practice. When you have a particular problem or question, here is the place to come. There are some of the very best knifemakers here and are willing to help. Bruce and Bruce are a wealth of information as are the rest with web pages.

Good luck and it sounds like you are already hooked.
 
Thanks for all the speedy replys.
I have already tried a few things.
I am going down to the guild show tomorrow and maybe I will find someone who can help.
Thanks again.
 
Practice brings more feel of the blade against the belt. Feel of the grind angle is a big part of a sharp grind line.

Allen Blades videos are cheap enough and worth the price of admission to see someone grind a flat ground and hollow grind knife.
I find that the hollow grinds are easier than the flat grinds so don't be too scared of those.
Just plan on some waste initially.
 
Wow,
Thanks for the help.
I worked on a lot of the things mentioned here and in emails and today I went to the Guild show.
I asked a lot of questions, picked up a few videos and then on the way out I saw a great demo by Ken and Paula Kelgin. They were showing how to make knives right there in the parking lot.
I bought some more steel from the Texas Supply guy and then came home and worked on the hollow grinds. I feel a lot better at it. Now some of my grinds come most of the way up the small blades but they are starting to get even. Now that plunge.....
Thanks again
 
For the plunge try using a file guide when just getting it started. Works great for flat grinding.

C Wilkins
 
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