OK Sharpening Gurus .....

gajinoz

gajinoz

Joined
Sep 2, 2003
Messages
11,650
A few opinions if you please.

I'm giving some thought to reprofiling my small Sebenza, or maybe not.

It doesn't really do any heavy work, I leave that to the SnG, but it does get used around the house and out in the back yard occasionally and what I really want it to do is slice well. I'm not going to be chopping anything with it so I was considering sharpening it to 15 degrees a side.

What do you guys think, 15 or 20?
 
Shmackey said:
What's it at right now?
Click to expand...

As it came from Mr. Reeve. Around 15 I think.

With my Edgepro I can get a pretty accurate angle but I just can't decide whether to change it or not.
 
gajinoz said:
It doesn't really do any heavy work ...
Click to expand...

Then sharpen it down to the primary grind, ~5 degrees per side, you can't cut metals with it then, but ropes, cardboard, woods, meats, vegetables, are all fine. Even if you are chopping wood, 15-20 degrees is way overkill, you only need that on a 10" bowie, not a 3-4" folder, unless you want to cold chisel it through metals or dense bone.

-Cliff
 
IF you are restricting your scope of work to fairly light stuff, then you can go way lower than 15 degrees as a primary edge angle. I am assuming you picked 15/20 as angles becasuse you have a Sharpmaker. Good choice. But to reprofile the edge you will need a course stone or some sandpaper. 3M wet/dry can be found anywhere, get a multi pack.

Take some spray adhesive or a glue stick and affix the sandpaper to a board. Now take your Sebenza and place it right down on the paper. Lift the thumbstuds a hair off the paper so they won't get ground down. That is the angle to use. Aren't deep hollow grinds fun!

The course paper will take off metal fast. Use the finer grits to polish the bevel you have created, it is gonna be pretty wide.

You are not gonna want to take off that much metal each time you sharpen, so now you add a micro-bevel. It will also make the edge more durable. Use the 15 degree setting on your sharpmaker. It will only take a few minutes.

It may not be pretty, but it should cut very well.
 
knifetester said:
IF you are restricting your scope of work to fairly light stuff, then you can go way lower than 15 degrees as a primary edge angle. I am assuming you picked 15/20 as angles becasuse you have a Sharpmaker. Good choice. But to reprofile the edge you will need a course stone or some sandpaper. 3M wet/dry can be found anywhere, get a multi pack.
Click to expand...

I do have a Sharpmaker but I also have an Edgepro with the extra stones and such, great tool and I can get pretty much any angle I want.

The main reason I chose those was not because I wanted to restrict myself but more because I could touch it up quickly now and then with the Sharpmaker when necessary, it's much quicker to set up and operate. Also, I wasn't totally sure how low you could safely go with S30V which is why I asked for opinions.

Maybe I'll take it down to 10 and see how it goes. I'm a conservative bugger at heart! :)
 
gajinoz said:
A few opinions if you please.

I'm giving some thought to reprofiling my small Sebenza, or maybe not.

It doesn't really do any heavy work, I leave that to the SnG, but it does get used around the house and out in the back yard occasionally and what I really want it to do is slice well. I'm not going to be chopping anything with it so I was considering sharpening it to 15 degrees a side.

What do you guys think, 15 or 20?
Click to expand...

I don't mean to hurt your feelings. Anyone owning a Sebbie and having two very good sharpeners should know how to make an edge.

Here are some links if you can't find the instructions that came with you sharpener. Remember if it was a razor they would have called it a razor instead of a knife. Profile at 30 total (15 side) and sharpen at 40 and it should not need resharpening for a long time.


http://users.ameritech.net/knives/
 
DGG said:
I don't mean to hurt your feelings. Anyone owning a Sebbie and having two very good sharpeners should know how to make an edge.
Click to expand...

There is a big difference between knowing how to touch up or reapply a decent edge to a knife and reprofiling one. I've been sharpening for over a decade (whooptyDO) and reprofiling and applying different grinds to a pre-existing edge is still fairly new to me. The terminology and oft times confusing sharpening vernacular can be overwhelming to someone not well versed in it. I wish there was a sharpening forum on this board but that's not going to happen anytime soon. Please remember a time when you didn't know all that you know about sharpening and help a fellow knife guy out. No offense.
 
Laceration said:
There is a big difference between knowing how to touch up or reapply a decent edge to a knife and reprofiling one. I've been sharpening for over a decade (whooptyDO) and reprofiling and applying different grinds to a pre-existing edge is still fairly new to me. The terminology and oft times confusing sharpening vernacular can be overwhelming to someone not well versed in it. I wish there was a sharpening forum on this board but that's not going to happen anytime soon. Please remember a time when you didn't know all that you know about sharpening and help a fellow knife guy out. No offense.
Click to expand...

That's exactly why the Sharpmaker and other knife sharpener sellers include instructions with their sharpeners. It is a rare instance when someone has to reprofile. Slaughter houses, butcher shops once in a while. This isn't rocket science.

Here is a sharpening link for you to take a look at.

http://www.knifeforums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=&C=4
 
Oh yeah, for what you're asking from the edge, I'd go 15 degrees or less. It'll slice like a bastard and you shouldn't have any problems considering you're only using it as a light duty blade. 20 degrees is a great balance between slicing ability and medium duty use. 20 degrees should work well for heavy duty use if you don't go to heavy on the polish. I've found that leaving it a little toothy gives a longer lasting utility edge that is easily touched up with stropping and/or steeling.
 
Laceration said:
Oh yeah, for what you're asking from the edge, I'd go 15 degrees or less. It'll slice like a bastard and you shouldn't have any problems considering you're only using it as a light duty blade. 20 degrees is a great balance between slicing ability and medium duty use. 20 degrees should work well for heavy duty use if you don't go to heavy on the polish. I've found that leaving it a little toothy gives a longer lasting utility edge that is easily touched up with stropping and/or steeling.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Stropping helps alot even with larger angles.


http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32999&cat=1,43072

http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/sharpen/instruct.html
 
Laceration said:
I'd go 15 degrees or less. It'll slice like a bastard and you shouldn't have any problems considering you're only using it as a light duty blade.
Click to expand...

Fifteen degrees per side isn't a light duty profile, full size felling axes have more acute edges.

-Cliff
 
I think it is a misconception that sharpeners have settings of 20 degrees to "be more durable". The reason that they have such obtuse angles is that they don't think that users have the experience or patience to hone at lower angles. They particularly don't think users have the patience to reprofile obtuse bevels that come on a lot of "tactical" knives. Likewise the knife manufacturers put such obtuse bevels on their knives because it takes less production time to do it that way.

I always reprofile to under 10 degrees. I've done that for about 40 years. Except for cheap Pakistani knives I never noticed durability issues given reasonable knife usage. An exception would be a thin kitchen knive edge chopped into bone. This damage is usually not so much a factor of edge bevel as the blade grind and the blade hardness. For example a stainless steel Mora knife with the flat scandinavian grind and soft (seems like around 55 RC) Sandvik 12C27 blade dings considerably when chopping beef bones.
 
Jeff Clark said:
I think it is a misconception that sharpeners have settings of 20 degrees to "be more durable". The reason that they have such obtuse angles is that they don't think that users have the experience or patience to hone at lower angles. They particularly don't think users have the patience to reprofile obtuse bevels that come on a lot of "tactical" knives. Likewise the knife manufacturers put such obtuse bevels on their knives because it takes less production time to do it that way.

I always reprofile to under 10 degrees. I've done that for about 40 years. Except for cheap Pakistani knives I never noticed durability issues given reasonable knife usage. An exception would be a thin kitchen knive edge chopped into bone. This damage is usually not so much a factor of edge bevel as the blade grind and the blade hardness. For example a stainless steel Mora knife with the flat scandinavian grind and soft (seems like around 55 RC) Sandvik 12C27 blade dings considerably when chopping beef bones.
Click to expand...

I find that 40 degrees total with my wife's kitchen knives works better than 30 degrees. They are probably not the quality steel many of our knives are.

I have done this since way back when I got a Spyderco and that is what they recommend 40 degrees even today with their Sharpmaker knife sharpener for all the different shapes of blades and types of steel they sell. I have never understood why they profile and ship at 30 degrees but tell the user to sharpen at 40 degrees. The stropping puts a nice edge on at 40 degrees. I'm not much for cutting hair and paper to test sharpness. How many deer/elk can you gut/skin is more my testing methods.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Fifteen degrees per side isn't a light duty profile, full size felling axes have more acute edges.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

So does my chainsaw chain with its chisel grind!
 
DGG said:
I have never understood why they profile and ship at 30 degrees but tell the user to sharpen at 40 degrees.
Click to expand...

Because the knives would take a lot longer to sharpen by the user if they shipped them at 40 degrees and they would not cut nearly as well either.

The 40 degrees is a micro bevel, Glesser notes that the knives need to be relief ground at 15 degrees from time to time to keep the performance high.

-Cliff
 
Jeff Clark said:
I think it is a misconception that sharpeners have settings of 20 degrees to "be more durable".
Click to expand...

Makers/manufacturers promote it directly for this reason so it is hard for users to not get that idea. A lot of people do believe it is the best angle and that 20 is actually kind of acute and heavy working knives need even thicker angles.

DGG said:
...somebody who gets paid for his expertise...
Click to expand...

Jeff sharpened blades for money in the past, Steve B. wrote a book on the subjet and runs a business teaching people how to sharpen, Lee wrote a book on sharpening and his knowledge in that area is one of the aspects of his current business, J.J of Razor Edge built a company on his sharpening knowledge/ability. All suggest primary edge angles far under 20 degrees per side. The difference in cutting ability, edge retention and ease of sharpening is tremendous with the use of a proper relief / micro bevel.

-Cliff
 
Hi Gajinoz. I have a large sebenza and an edge pro. I normally kept the factory angle ( about 20 -21 degrees) but last time I dropped it to 17 degrees. With either I was able to get hair popping edges, but the 17 degree angle was definitely sharper. Why don't you take the angle down in stages eg try dropping 3 -4 degrees till you hit the angle you like best.

(I suggest this because once the metal's taken off it can't be put back. By going slow you can see how you like the looks. It took me awhile to get used to the looks of the edge, especially the tip, after I reduced the angle to 17.)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top