OK, so I made this sword....HELP SWORD GUYS!

Sam Salvati

Sam Salvati

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Aug 6, 2007
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OK, so i got to forging this 1084 1 inch wide 1/4 thick, forged out this nice middle eastern style, semi fantasy sword, forged out real nice but I brought it a BIT too close to final dimensions.....hard to break the hamer finish habits plus I am a steel miser. I started grinding on it and my grinding technique is basically :barf: still soooooo things got a bit on the thin side. Dimensions are about 26 inch blade length, with the Very base of the blade starting as 1/4 thick, but then tapering after about 2 inches to 5/16ths, then tapering for the rest of the blade about 1/8th of an inch. Point of balance, is already about 4 inches in front of where the guard will be, perfect for a sword, and keeping in mind I have to clip the rest of the barstock off the end there and then forge out the tang, it willstill be at, before the pommel or guard or handle are on about 6 or 7 inches out from the guard area. LIGHT AS A FEATHER TOO, while it feels great, whooshes when swung, fast as all get out I am nervous, in the end will it be too thin to actually cut anything? I am not so worried about warping in the heat treat i have that problem solved, I am just worried will it be basically a noodle when I am done with it? The geometry is a just barely conves edge, and the spine is also convex. I remember the thread on flex being about geometry and stuff not so much heat treat, If I can pull it off this sword will cut like THE DICKENS too. I realise when you make the blade you have to know what it will be doing to adjust the shape and geometry accordingly, this one just got a bit out of hand. I am just wondering, after the guard and handle and pommel are on will this sword not have enough blade presence to be an effective cutter? I will fine tune the hilt parts of course accordingly to get the point of balance at 4 or 5 inches, but even then with such a light blade will there be a problem? Here is some pictures(and trust me the pictures smooth out ALOT of poor grind lines:p).

Overall
l_04137d6c0ef00285c3cd79b56b614f65.jpg


A shot of the base of the blade, it tapers VERY quickly, in only about 5 or 6 inches from 1/4 to 1/8th.
l_328bb931eeb64215bd8021691c6b4f63.jpg


Basically a 26 inch filet knife......... OH gosh it feels so nice to hold, just moves effortlessly, light as can be.
 
I have seen some very old swords that were very thin like that.
One was a wakizashi or perhaps a kodachi that was about 350 years old. I was not able to measure but remember thinking that it was only 1/8" thick. That was back when I thought My Bowie's needed to be 1/4"
 
I remember a tv program about cavalry sabres using melons as targets, striking these melons as they rode by. I was interesting how much flexing there was as the sabre cut through the melon !! A scimitar was fairly light as I understand .
 
Sam nice sword, don't let the dimension thing throw you. Western swords are surprisingly light and fast, yes those Japanese blades that everyone seems to worship are huge thick slabs of metal, but if you're not making a katana, don't sweat it. you may not be able to shear through cannon barrels in one blow, . . . oh wait, they couldn't either :o
if it comes too life in your hand it's a weapon. if you can place the point where you want for a thrust by just thinking about it , it's deadly, if it will slice on a swinging circular drawcut it's a saber.
Bring it to Ashokan. I will hopefully have my first viking sword done by then, we can compare.

-Page
 
HEHEHE Page I know all those ridiculous myths I wasn't thinking like that. It's just, it's so damn light and fragile-like, will I have to temper it more than my usualy double one hours at 400F?
 
Sam, I would recommend a higher temper than 400F. With 1084, at 500F you will still be a bit harder than most swords should be (about Rc 59-60). I would suggest 525F to 550F (twice for 1 hour each), for a good spring temper and a Rc target of 56-58. You might also want to consider fast oil instead of water.
Stacy
 
Thanks Stacy, NO WAY am I going NEAR any water with this thing:D. I was thinking of a medium speed oil, due to the fact it is so thin I would be worried about cracking in too fast an oil like Parks#50, the edge is THIN, about as thin if not thinner than a dime. Would I still get full hardness in a medium or slow oil with the 1084, due to the thin cross section would it still cool fast enough? I'll definately take your advice on tempering at the higher temperatures stacy, but would I really reach such high RC to begin with?
 
Sam the fencing rapier blades I use are 1095 tempered to rockwell 50 according to the manufacturer, and they hold up to a fair amount of abuse, actually they hold up to an absurd amount of abuse! I have been using one of them for 6 years for several hours a week, with blade beats, percussive edge to edge counters, fairly deep bends etc. and it's held up beautifully. I think a target of around 50-55 is good. Just my opinion

-Page
 
OK, definately sounds like a lower RC is the way to go for a bit more forgiving flex(if I understand that correctly), thanks Page.
 
looks good to me

although the grind is hidden in the picture haha

mine arent good either one day I will get there though

your always putting up lots of work, the hours pay off :)
 
Sam, I have an almost identical sword that I forged a couple of years ago at a demo. It is in the corner with all the other swords, still waiting for HT ( mostly because it is a bit too thin).It is forged in 1095.

I think medium oil would be fine for such a thin sword in 1084. The target hardness should be low. The numbers I posted were for a perfect world. In reality, those temps with a medium oil quench would probably yield a low 50's Rc. Swords don't need to be extremely hard. They do need to be extremely tough.

I have about six swords waiting for HT. In a couple of weeks I'll (hopefully) get the urge to have a quenching session with the 48" tank. I have thought of sending them to Kevin, but what's the fun in that :) :D. I keep on stalling on assembling a set of BIG salt pots.Maybe when I build the retirement shop and have a lot more (and safer) room.
Stacy
 
all this sword talk is making me itch....


I have always wanted to make one but im not ready yet
 
I have a couple waiting now for heat treat, a little wakizashi-like naginata, that 1084 broadsword I posted pictures awhile back, and this baby, all gathering for when i build my salt rig. I have an oil tank ready to quench into, my problem is heating the longer steel up.
 
That thin you might want to see if Kevin Cashen or Tim Zowada would be willing to salt bath HT it (if it will fit in their pots with the curve) so you do not lose metal to scale and decarb, also you will want to do your finish sanding/grinding/stoning along the length of the blade not across it so you're not introducing stress risers that want to fracture across the blade

-Page
 
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