Ok, time for a big question

Boy, fishing must be slow... everyone's opening their cans of worms on the forum instead of the lake lately! ;)

I'm an SR guy and have no hard feelings against hammer jockies. However I don't buy into the whole "mystery/soul" stuff that some (far from all) forgers espouse. The funny thing is MOST forgers (again, far from all) use grinders plenty. I wonder if hammer/anvil purists look down their nose at guys who use power hammers?

To me, it's all steel and I don't much care if a maker beats on it, grinds it, or CNC's it as long as he's clear about his techniques with his clients. With the modern materials and HT technology we're blessed with, all 3 methods are capable of producing excellent blades... most likely the best the world has ever seen in terms of consistent performance.
 
I agree with Kevin. On the whole, I think the issue of animosity between stock removal guys and forgers is a non-starter for a thread starter.
 
Perhaps "animosity" is too strong a word... but I've read plenty of articles and opinions that so strongly espouse one technique over the other, as to effectively insult anyone who uses the other technique. Thankfully, we've seen much, much less of that in recent years. :thumbup:

Where did it come from originally? Well, I suppose it goes back the stone age... "who are these young whipper-snappers with this fancy bronze stuff?!?" ;) Seriously though, in my early years of learning about knives (early 80's) it was a pretty contentious issue for some. There were some big names who swore no SR knife could ever match up to a forged one, and a few SR guys who scoffed that forging was just romantic out-dated hooey. Neither was right, of course.

Someone asked what next week's question for collectors would be, in response to recent threads about unmarked knives and unknown steel... perhaps this is that question... do collectors consider whether a knife was forged, ground or machined when determining a new purchase?
 
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I don't see any animosity. Folks do things the way they do things.

For the 4 knives I've had a hand in making, I just found beating the hell out of hot steel way too therapeutic to try it any other way.
 
No animosity here. I forge and grind, and usually get along fairly well with myself.
 
I make knives both ways, most by stock removal, but I love the hammer and anvil. I keep dreaming of a power hammer, maybe when I get the last two of my sons out of college. I think that Charlie is dreaming of a water jet machine, him having been a programmer in a prior life it seems a natural.

The stock removal/forging thing is an internal conflict that I have to deal with and has resulted in some really big dents in places that were hard to get out. :D I had some real internal conflicts when I was looking through Bill Moran's book and saw where he recommended cutting an angle on a piece of stock to develop the point of a blade. I was taught by a real master that can move metal with a hammer like a kid moves clay the tip had to be forged in. The Smith (my middle name) in me was wounded, but the stock removal side of me was thrilled that Mr. Moran had a practical side too.

I don't care much for makers that bad mouth other makers. I guess that would be the only animosity I have felt in this business. It hasn't got one thing to do with how they make knives. It doesn't work well in any business. It never ceases to amaze me that people don't realize how little time it takes for the word to get back to the maker. We have had it happen twice and it was evenly split, one stock removal guy and one blade smith. It took about 10 minutes in both cases to get back to us. Both makers lost a great customer and put the customer solidly in our corner. Maybe I should thank the makers for their comments.

Do what you enjoy and don't sweat what others do. I don't care how you make knives, as long as you are honest in your dealings with people and in your replies when people ask you questions. If you aren't it makes us all look bad.
 
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Can you please let us know where you have seen this animosity? I know that there are stock removal makers that get upset when they read that there is an inherent superiority in a forged blade (Mike Lovett comes to mind), but I haven't seen that degenerate into a dislike for makers that forge.
 
wow, I'm surprised
I've herd forging "people" say those "stock removal makers" don't make
realknives etc.
Seems I hear alot of terms like "soul" and "spirit" from forging guys and in the same breath that stock removal knives have none, as if somehow to make the forged product have something special that the other school can't produce.
From a phone conversation I had today, I guess this goes way back....
 
as always, Harry's input is bang on, at least from my perspective. Harry, you are a hell of a smart guy and I hope I get to meet you and your brother one day.

I don't think we see much of that kind of animosity in this particular forum, because this is a place for makers to showcase their work and for collectors and buyers to talk about things pertinent to their interests.
I wouldn't be surprised to find these kinds of arguments in a maker's forum though.
 
betzner said:
I agree with Kevin. On the whole, I think the issue of animosity between stock removal guys and forgers is a non-starter for a thread starter.
Click to expand...

last I knew it was a public forum, and I'm entitled to ask questions like everyone else...
Did I miss a memo?

stainless vs. non
scrap vs. store bought

etc etc.

it boild down to 1 question for me
 
Phillip Patton said:
No animosity here. I forge and grind, and usually get along fairly well with myself.
Click to expand...

That's about it Phillip, gave me a chuckle.

I think what happens a lot is guys will talk knives with other makers that are doing the same type of work. And you get to know each other a lot better.
Than just the chance meetings here and there.
But not always, I do and have talk to all different ones over the past year .......lets see Ray Smith, Nick Wheeler, Tommy Gann, Ed Fowler, Indian George and Lin Rea to name a few
:confused::rolleyes::):thumbup: I guess they are OK?? :confused::)


Todd
 
perhaps it should have gone into the makers forum, I was a bit troubled where to post thequestion.
 
SShepherd said:
wow, I'm surprised
I've herd forging "people" say those "stock removal makers" don't make
realknives etc.
Seems I hear alot of terms like "soul" and "spirit" from forging guys and in the same breath that stock removal knives have none, as if somehow to make the forged product have something special that the other school can't produce.
From a phone conversation I had today, I guess this goes way back....
Click to expand...


Where are you seeing and hearing this? I imagine that there are some makers that feel the way you have described here, but my experience has been quite the opposite.

Every maker that I know of does stock removal to one degree or another.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Where are you seeing and hearing this? I imagine that there are some makers that feel the way you have described here, but my experience has been quite the opposite.

Every maker that I know of does stock removal to one degree or another.
Click to expand...

I agree....and thats why I was flabberghasted when I herd the comments.

and don't get me wrong, I don't mean to say "all". The comments that I've herd over the years have been from a pretty small but vocal group.
 
I found this question of Forged vs Stock Removal vexing enough to include it on my submission form on my website. It's the last table. Go ahead see for yourself:

http://sharpbycoop.com/publication.htm
























































As you can imagine, I found it a ruse. In all the years I have listened to talk on the forums, I have never once heard a maker or collector distinctly say that one is better than the other.

It's become the mythical Hatfields amd McCoys of Blademaking. :)

Coop
 
SShepherd said:
last I knew it was a public forum, and I'm entitled to ask questions like everyone else...
Did I miss a memo?

stainless vs. non
scrap vs. store bought

etc etc.

it boild down to 1 question for me
Click to expand...

Don't get your feathers in an uproar because someone has an opinion of his own, my opinion being that this is much ado about nuthin'. All opinions valued here.
 
I see no anomasity at all everyone knows that forged is better:D

There is no anomasity just opinions and everyone's got one.
 
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