Ok, time for a big question

My feathers are neither up, nor roaring;)

I just wondering where "split" came from. We all make knives..the end product being what most important (especially if their sold to paying customers) Forged..stock removal big whup. I also understand nostalga, and a bit of romanticism behind forging, all fine and dandy. 2 different ways to climb the mountian.
 
And yes, animosity was probably too strong a word:o

I should have said, why the desire or need to puff one up as a superior process.
 
Man, I hate those stock removal guys.


Wait, no.

The forgers. Yeah, they suck.

Wait - which do I do?

Whichever one it is that I don't do, those guys suck.
 
I forge and do alittle stock removal, to me stock removal is alot more work, I hate the grinder!
 
Hmathews said:
I make knives both ways, most by stock removal, but I love the hammer and anvil. I keep dreaming of a power hammer, maybe when I get the last two of my sons out of college. I think that Charlie is dreaming of a water jet machine, him having been a programmer in a prior life it seems a natural.

The stock removal/forging thing is an internal conflict that I have to deal with and has resulted in some really big dents in places that were hard to get out. :D I had some real internal conflicts when I was looking through Bill Moran's book and saw where he recommended cutting an angle on a piece of stock to develop the point of a blade. I was taught by a real master that can move metal with a hammer like a kid moves clay the tip had to be forged in. The Smith (my middle name) in me was wounded, but the stock removal side of me was thrilled that Mr. Moran had a practical side too.

I don't care much for makers that bad mouth other makers. I guess that would be the only animosity I have felt in this business. It hasn't got one thing to do with how they make knives. It doesn't work well in any business. It never ceases to amaze me that people don't realize how little time it takes for the word to get back to the maker. We have had it happen twice and it was evenly split, one stock removal guy and one blade smith. It took about 10 minutes in both cases to get back to us. Both makers lost a great customer and put the customer solidly in our corner. Maybe I should thank the makers for their comments.

Do what you enjoy and don't sweat what others do. I don't care how you make knives, as long as you are honest in your dealings with people and in your replies when people ask you questions. If you aren't it makes us all look bad.
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I agree:)
Heck, I started out forging files and leafsprings. I quit when I put 10hrs into a knife just to find a void in the steel==instant switch to barstock.

Maybe the "puffery" is a bit of insecurity in a persons own ability, so they need to make the something out of their control seem superior?
 
Personally I have not seen animosity. Quite the opposite actually. I am with Phillip, I get along with myself pretty well most of the time. Sounds like a non-issue to me, or at least I do not consider it one. Just my opinion. Another opinion, SShepherd, using a known steel from a known supplier can make a lot of difference in what shows up after ten hours of work.
Best regards
Brion
 
I've only seen a very few of these types in the 25 or so years I've been
involved in custom knives.

They use the argument (one is better than the other) to try to sell their
knives. A marketing tool that doesn't work very well.
 
I think some of the old school guys could answer this question better. I'm not sure if it's animosity but I do know there tend to be strong differences of opinion. MLovett where u at?
 
BRTATCK said:
Personally I have not seen animosity. Quite the opposite actually. I am with Phillip, I get along with myself pretty well most of the time. Sounds like a non-issue to me, or at least I do not consider it one. Just my opinion. Another opinion, SShepherd, using a known steel from a known supplier can make a lot of difference in what shows up after ten hours of work.
Best regards
Brion
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lol, ya, I found that out a long time ago
 
I guess I'm the only one that read certain columns in certain magazines or the various knife books that were available back in the 70's-80's-90's. Or recent threads about how certain judges at certain shows "snub" certain makers... or people puffing themselves up because they use "X" steel... as if that makes them instantly "better" than their counterpart who uses "Y" steel or "Z" technique. ;)

I'm not choosing sides or naming names here! I refuse to go down that road because I think it's just plain dumb and counter-productive to our hobby/industry as a whole.

Regardless, I'm sure that the general climate of the custom/handmade knife world is much more welcoming to different techniques nowadays, and I really do believe the best cutlery in human history is being made right now. In a variety of ways, and with a variety of materials.
 
James_Terrio said:
I guess I'm the only one that read certain columns in certain magazines or the various knife books that were available back in the 70's-80's-90's. Or recent threads about how certain judges at certain shows "snub" certain makers... or people puffing themselves up because they use "X" steel... as if that makes them instantly "better" than their counterpart who uses "Y" steel or "Z" technique. ;)

I'm not choosing sides or naming names here! I refuse to go down that road because I think it's just plain dumb and counter-productive to our hobby/industry as a whole.

Regardless, I'm sure that the general climate of the custom/handmade knife world is much more welcoming to different techniques nowadays, and I really do believe the best cutlery in human history is being made right now. In a variety of ways, and with a variety of materials.
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no, I'm with ya..

I bought every issue of blade from the 80's a while back
 
I am new and do SR but want to learn to forge really bad. Just too far from a bladesmith around these parts. I respect both.
 
I agree with Don.

The "My method is better than your method" was used to sell knives.

I saw the "animosity" begin when Damascus makers started touting their "Secret" steel....two primarily come to mind. Couple that with their sparkling personality and you would quickly see why "stock removal guys" would take offense to the things these makers were saying.

For the most part the "animosity" disappeared well over 10 years ago.

Each technique has pros and cons depending on the job the knife is intended to do.
 
Foraging vs. stock production. Well I try and grow all my vegitables by stock production. However, foraging may have some advantages.... I think all the stock production guys should run those searchin and scrounging foragers out of....
Did you say forge vs. stock removal?
 
I think that we knifemakers have evolved over the past couple of decades and no longer concern ourselves with such trivial matters as the forging vs. stock removal issue. We have moved on to bigger arguments like high carbon vs. stainless, leather vs. Kydex and the evil, all pervasive G-bone.:D
 
I may be even more confused than Philip, since I have forged all my life but find myself agreeing more often with the stock removers:confused:. ;) I agree that this rift has closed quite a bit over the years, and I would chalk it up to the folks in the custom knife community being more informed than in the past. Ten or more years ago many bladesmiths were still telling folks how they could hammer the steel “molecules” denser along the edge as well as the already mentioned claims about damascus. Today most of the top guys I talk to find that displaying such a lack of basic high school physics is more a hindrance to their image than all the tall tales could be in propping it up. Walking through the “Blade” show and looking at the knives as well as talking to the people on both sides of the table, gives you a picture of how things are a bit more sophisticated than in the days when this rivalry was really an issue.

Sean, I know what you are describing, but I am going to hazard a guess that the majority of folks who are giving you the strongest vibe of this rivalry are not prominent names on the national level. I find that I often have to answer questions revolving around those old myths for isolated or new guys who are still reading the P.R. and material from 10 or 20 years ago.

As for the mystical, touchy, feely, deeper understanding or connection claims that many bladesmiths still seem to have a penchant for, well I don’t entirely understand it but I have an idea of where it may come from. When we are moving and shaping that glowing hot steel it invokes some very primal things in us, much like the glazed stare we all get when looking at a fire at night, it may even have a slight hypnotic effect. But for me it always goes away when I shut the forge off and have to face the real world knowing I will be in front of the grinder tomorrow with that same piece of steel;)
 
Lorien we will probably bump into each other one day. It's a small community even if the world is still pretty large, and with the price of gas, getting larger.

Years ago you used to see claims of "I make the best knives in the world" or "My knives are born in fire". Most of the customers we get are very informed and know what they like. Most understand that there is no one perfect knife. Thank goodness, because that means they have to have more. People accept that knives don't have any mystical powers that can only be imparted by shaping it one way or the other or heat treating it in some secret way that only that maker has been able to unravel while ignoring all science. That kind of marketing just doesn't seem to work for them anymore. There are still a few on both sides of the issue that make some wild and weird claims, but most makers seem to be willing to let their knives build their reputations for them and avoid the spiel of the snake oil salesman. I think that this move over the last 10 or so years has been good for the makers and the industry as a whole.
 
Hmathews said:
People accept that knives don't have any mystical powers that can only be imparted by shaping it one way or the other or heat treating it in some secret way that only that maker has been able to unravel while ignoring all science. That kind of marketing just doesn't seem to work for them anymore.
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My knives have mystical powers. My knives will make anyone a wizard! A ninja wizard!*

If you hold one of my knives it will let you see in total darkness, and other people won't be able to see you!**

You can cut through ENTIRE BUILDINGS with my knives - and not leave a mark on the building. They're so sharp they just sever the atomic bond between the bricks! It's true!***

Better still, they never need sharpening! And if they did, you could do it on any old rock you came across. But you won't need to!****










*M. Gregory knives has no clue art all what a ninja wizard is, and cannot verify the existence of them. This, however, do not mean they do not exist.

**M. Gregory knives won't really allow you to see in the dark, or hide you from anyone.

***The previous statement may or may not be true. Ability to suspend the laws of physics depends entirely on the end user's ability to suspend the laws of physics.

****This statement is probably not true. If your skill set does not include mastery over time and space, this statement will not be reproducible by you.
 
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