Okay!!!! How many of you have ceramic hones?

Well alota places carry grits up to 2000-2500. Most good auto supply stores has it, so does Wal-Mart if you look in their auto supply. I got some bulk from English color and supply (sorry not on my normal computer so I cant post a link), but dunno if Ill do that again since it was kinda spendy to buy that much paper at once. Micro-mesh finishing paper I believe goes up to 12,000 grit alota online places have em. Ive been happy with the finish 2500 gives, not quite mirror finished but thats what the metal polish is for. Anyways Ive heard that 6000 grit paper and higher will give mirror finishes, but Ive only recently found places selling the stuff so havent tried it yet.

If you dont have it already Frey's book Keris: Mystic Weapons of the Malay World is a good keris starter book. The last section is devoted to keris care and has information on properly patinating keris. Arsenic Trioxide isnt too difficult to find, many online chemical stores sell it, as well as any that may be local to you. Its kinda scary but that its actually so easy to get. As for alternatives to the arsenic lime solution (which should only be used outdoors in a well ventilated area) I cant really think of anything beyond ferric chloride. As far as I know the only real way to get the proper contrasts in color as well as the proper colors and shades is to use the arsenic solution. I mainly only etch moro kris and weaponry so that is something different. Im sure Wong Desa or possibly someone else on the Ethnographic Edge forum at www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/index.html could give more information. He has had the fortune of studying under Alan Maissey an extremely knowledgable person and one of the foremost experts in the world on keris. One thing to note is that moro kris are etched differently than malay keris. The etch is not as deep and the surface is similar to balinese examples in that it is smooth rather than textured. Depending on the condition of any keris or kris a mixture of lemon juice and water is traditional for rust removal and will brighten the nickel. However surprisingly lemon juice is a pretty aggresive etchant so there is a danger of imparting texture where there shouldnt be texture.

If you havent tried asking around the Ethnographic Edge forum I would greatly suggest it as there are many more knowledgeable keris and kris collectors there.
 
Good stuff, Fed, and thanks.

We get our fine grit sandpaper at the auto supply places, generally Pep Boys. If we are doing some rust removal we take it to 2000 grit and then move to the buffing wheel with some fine rouge.
 
:
Great info and appreciated!!!!

If I may ask what lead you to start collecting Sundang and Keris swords and knifes?
I think I may have seen where you said you had heritage from the Phillipines?

One of my uncles saw action in the islands during WW II and said that the Moro Tribesmen were very fierce, terrifying and brave.
That they would wrap themselves with vines and the like and then come at you with the Sundang or other sword glinting in what light there was.
I also understand they were the reason the military adopted the 1911 .45 Colt since the .38 caliber wouldn't knock the tribesmen down and even being shot 6 times they still had enough force to continue to come at you and kill you before they succumbed to the
bullets.
Dayum tough people and fine Warriors!!!!
 
Is primarily to capture a sense of heritage. Though I am not moro I am Filipino and moro culture despite not being my direct lineage permeates general Filipino culture. In my studies of Filipino and Moro culture and history Ive found more commonality between the various tribes of Filipinos versus differences. It is a shame that more of us can't get along there, but tribal mentality and competition is still very strong though many will not admit it so many different groups still dont get along. Tagalogs still dont get along with Ilacanos, even Tausugs (one moro tribe) often dont get along with Maguindanaos (another moro tribe). Though Im glad Im in the US as since it seems to be the one place where Filipinos forget there language and divisions and unify as Filipino.

Yes indeed the the .45 was developed for the moros. It took the US wiping out about 1/3 of the Filipino people to finally get a secure hold of the land. My own family moved from samar to leyte after the US army had finished killing almost all the adult and adolescent male population. Not something very published in US or even Filipino history books but something that occured. For the Moro peoples they have always been a proud and fierce group. Even the Spanish didnt manage any headway into moro lands until the mid to late 1800s when steamships, machine guns, and other more modern gave them a significant advantage over the predominantly sword wielding moro's, and even then they only held the coasts barely and never went deep into the heart of Moro lands. Upon the American campaigns in moro lands those were some of the first times any white man had set eyes let alone foot in some of those areas. Juromentados or more precisely those who under took the oath of pagsibil (I may be using the wrong term here cause my books arent with me) were fierce solo warriors who undertook strong oaths to fight against American oppresion at the cost of their lives. After a night of ritual and praying their bodies were cleaned and annointed as if for burial and their hair was shaved to represent the full moon and various bindings were placed around them to prevent blood loss. I have seen documented accounts of moro juromentados beheading 6 soldiers and sustaining numerous bullet wounds before finally being dispatched by a bullet to the head. A very fierce people indeed.
 
How times change!

When Yangdu was sworn in as a US citizen along with about 80 others down in San Diego the honor guard who raised the flag were all Filipino WWII vets -- God bless'em.
 
Very little of the American incursion in the Philippines has been taught in this country, other than the fact that the U.S. overcame the "Insurrection."
U.S. General "Hell-Roaring Jake" Smith ordered overy man on Samar executed after all but 20 of a company of U.S. Army were killed at the town of Balangiga. When asked who should be considered men for execution, Smith reportedly answered anyone over the age of 10. Smith wrote that Samar "must be made a howling wilderness."
The U.S. declared the "war" over in 1902 and I believe the last major battle was on Jolo Island in 1906.
The .45 Colt auto was adopted in 1911 after several years of trials, so some people claim that it was not brought on by events in the Philippines. There is almost universal acceptance of the fact that the term "leatherneck" resulted from the number of Marines who were nearly or entirely beheaded by barong and kris.
Some historians say that this was America's first incursion into Asia and point out some similarities between the Philippine Insurrection and the Vietnam War.
 
One thing to note that though the battle of Bud Bagsak (Im sorry I know Im butchering the spelling) was the last notably large battle between the US and Filipinos, moro juromentados were active well into the thirties and up into the start of WWII. In actuality the defeat at Bud Bagsak can be considered fuel towards the move towards lone juromentados vs larger more organized battles. Of course this all changes once WWII is over as suddenly there is a larger supply of guns that are readily available.
 
Much of the history we've been discussing is on line at
http://www.bakbakan.com/
They also have the first 18 chapters of Vic Hurley's "Swish of the Kris", probably the most sympathetic history of the Moros written by an American who served in the area.
Back to the original topic, I've found the ceramics by Spyderco to be very useful on blades big enough to require moving the sharpener over the stationary blade. They leave a fine edge that's surprisingly aggressive for its smoothness.
 
A friend of mine who is Filipino and very adept (scary) at native martial arts claims the U.S. Marines in the Philipines were so afraid of the blade carrying Moros that they would cut a peice of their leather gaiters ti fit around their necks as a sort of armor. I can't verify how true this is, but after researching the Marine Uniform of the time, it seems probable that the leather gaiter could have been pressed into service.
Sar
 
I've got my worn out finishing file, the worn out K-mart stone and the key chain crock stix that were given to me several years ago. Wonder why my khukuris are dull? But, I must fit the profile.
 
came, IIRC, from a far earlier era ( Tripoli? ) in which they actually wore a leather collar with a metal disc of 2" or larger centered over the adam's apple. I'm not sure if it was supposed to protect against cutlasses or hangers on shipboard, or against the sabers of land warriors.


Far as sharpening, thin cardboard, like the inside cover of notebooks, strops to a beautiful edge. It seems to me more tolerant of angle variations, though it takes somewhat longer.

 
Thanks Everyone for all the really interesting history, I really love it.
On sharpening, I know not everyone will have access to these items but I have found after 38 years of woodworking the fastest way to keep a razor edge is with a pressed cardboard wheel on a bench grinder using white buffing compound, I recenently started using a hard felt wheel but I find it doesn't have the stiffness needed to keep the edge surface as flat as it should be, although they both work quite well. If you need to actually remove some steel a diamond stone or Ive used a fine india stone with oil for 25-30 years it is still my favorite. For my smaller knives I to use the Spyderco sharpmaker, it does a heck of a job really quik if your blade is not terriblly abused. For manual sharpening to shape an edge a file or a 220 or 320 diamond stone work the quickest then move on to a ceramic or india stone or slip (odd shaped stones). Diamond stones are more "coarse/rough" than other stones with the same grit designation. I personally don't find a diamond stone a good finishing abrasive. Sharpening is a very individual process what works for you is the way to go. I use to to do leather work years ago with a good friend, sharpening our sole knives I would draw my edge into the stone and he would draw his away, we both had equally sharp knives.See Ya
 
Those who have seen the condition of the edges on my knives will never believe this but years ago I make a cardboard wheel that worked well and had most of my knives at razor edge -- but not any more.
 
I got my box from Shopsmith in today. I didn't buy as much as Yvsa as I have a love/hate relationship with sharpening. I love being able to get a nice, sharp edge to my knives, but getting it there can be frustrating. I was able to pick up a Spyderco Sharpmaker 203. Now I've never used the 203, much less the 204, but from what I've heard they do their job well. I probably won't be using this much except on my khukuris as I'm able to put a pretty acceptable edge on my other knives using plain old benchstones. It's just those recurves that kill me. No matter what I do I can't seem to put a decent edge on them. Hopefully I found the answer. And I got it at a good price too, only $22.91!
 
Fascinating Phillipino stuff... The Keris and Barong are devastating weapons...

As far as sharpening goes, perhaps I'm retarded, but I've always gotten good results with my 10 year old EZ-lap diamond hone. I can get a scary-sharp edge with that thing.
 
I don't mean to be an a**, but the correct term is Filipino, not Phillipino. It's sort of like Gorkha/Gurkha and khukuri/kukri. People may know what you mean, but it's wrong nonetheless.
 
Oops! I stand corrected. Sorry. Honestly, I should know better anyway.

No, I know exactly what you mean... It's like the difference between Italian and EYE-talian... My family is from form Italy, not EYE-taly! :D
 
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