Old Epoxy ?

[jdm61]

Meat and particularly COOKED meat was BIG in our evolution. the 600 number is probably low. I mentioned the 10,000 number before for the period after the theorized Toba super volcano disaster, but the lowest number I have seen theorized was 1000 BREEDING pairs, which would probably mean more like at least 3-4000 actual warm bodies. The problem with that super low number is that it might work considering the genetic "bottleneck" that we see for humans outside of Africa, but it might not work so well considering the "original" genetic diversity we see in Africa.
I talked about the fishermen earlier. That would have created a whole new pool of skills beyond the short term goal of finding food. The "Einstein" thing is a significant part what I was talking about earlier when I mentioned "critical mass" Another piece of that is when those wicked smart guys have the spare time to sit around thinking up stuff instead of harvesting millet and cattails or hunting for rats

Brain size to body mass used to be the be the best correlation to intelligence we thought we knew. Then studies showing reptiles and birds packed neutrons in more densely and efficiently has called that assumption in to question. I would have to look at the data again, but iirc, it was global brain size, not a specific area that changed. It might have been in the frontal lobes, which would probably be meaningful, but not conclusive.

We probably needed more general survival thinking 20,000 years ago, since we didn't have supermarkets or refrigeration. If we had a major disaster, 90-95% of the population probably couldn't figure out a homemade fishing setup, or trapline. I might be wrong, but that's the numbers I see in the non scientific discussions amongst people in my field. I tend to agree.

Iirc, just before the exodus out of Africa, it's been suggested that there were only 600 H. Sapiens left, and the conglomeration along the seafood rich coasts with the abundance of omega 3 allowed brain development combined with natural selection for navigational memory and problem solving skills gave us the boost needed. As luck would happen, the climate shifted, and the Sahara became wetter, allowing trekking into Asia. It was a probable perfect storm giving us our intelligence.

Once we got into groups larger than a few thousand people, the 1/100, 1/10,000, and 1/100,000 (Einstein) level intelligence people started working together and since then we have stood on the shoulders of giants.

It's fascinating reading when you get into it. So much to learn, then unlearn, and relearn.

 

[Willie71]

Meat and particularly COOKED meat was BIG in our evolution. the 600 number is probably low. I mentioned the 10,000 number before for the period after the theorized Toba super volcano disaster, but the lowest number I have seen theorized was 1000 BREEDING pairs, which would probably mean more like at least 3-4000 actual warm bodies. The problem with that super low number is that it might work considering the genetic "bottleneck" that we see for humans outside of Africa, but it might not work so well considering the "original" genetic diversity we see in Africa.
I talked about the fishermen earlier. That would have created a whole new pool of skills beyond the short term goal of finding food. The "Einstein" thing is a significant part what I was talking about earlier when I mentioned "critical mass" Another piece of that is when those wicked smart guys have the spare time to sit around thinking up stuff instead of harvesting millet and cattails or hunting for rats

I agree. I'd have to look at the research from the past five years to see where the 600 compared to 10,000 people debate lies. In any event it's a relatively small number with survival pressures and environmental changes at the right time that led us here, as compared to the dustbin of fossil history. No one can assert any hypothesis as "theory" at this point.

Regarding the diversity in and out of Africa, I saw some articles a few weeks ago I haven't read yet suggesting that there were several pockets of h. Sapiens throughout Africa, not just along the western coast that had massive advances and migration. I have to do more reading. This area is a hobby for me, rather than the necessity in following the research in current mental functioning.

 

[Zombie411]

The brain size phenomenon is making more and more news lately.
At least in scientific circles...

The American Journal of Anthropology sites a study carried out in China. Several hundred endocasts taken from humanoid skulls going back 7000 years have shown a steady decrease in brain size with no slowing down trend in modern humans. That's right folks... Your breeding children with smaller brain size.

Specific regions of the brain are not cited because it IS a general downsizing.
This trend is continuing...

My speculation?
As stated earlier we are relying on others to take care of our survival. Many of the original human senses are waining. Does that mean we have a more concentrated, and efficient brain?
Duke university has been trying to determine this. To date there is nothing that suggests this as a "good" part of human evolution.
In fact we as a species are thinking less. We are problem solving less. We are moving less.
A direct result that many may not correlate is we are relying on machines to such a degree that we use calculators in school, Spell check in our correspondence, cars to check the mail, and treadmills to exorcise.

In fact one of the worst things that can happen to us is right under our noses, and we pay it no attention.
I'm talking about Ceiri, Cortona, and countless other forms of data collection that are using US to program artificial intelligence.
Soon we won't need to think at all. Tell your coffee pot to wake you at 7:00am, and start your car so you can check your mail. Then curl up in the couch to work from home.

It's a rather large snowball that we have teetering in the edge here.

 

[jdm61]

I agree. I'd have to look at the research from the past five years to see where the 600 compared to 10,000 people debate lies. In any event it's a relatively small number with survival pressures and environmental changes at the right time that led us here, as compared to the dustbin of fossil history. No one can assert any hypothesis as "theory" at this point.

Regarding the diversity in and out of Africa, I saw some articles a few weeks ago I haven't read yet suggesting that there were several pockets of h. Sapiens throughout Africa, not just along the western coast that had massive advances and migration. I have to do more reading. This area is a hobby for me, rather than the necessity in following the research in current mental functioning.

Yeah, those couple of major genetic bottlenecks may be a big reason that some theorize that the male side of our eqenrtic package may run out of steam in the next 20,000-30,000 years and threaten us with extinction. Of course, I am sure that we will have figured out a solution by then assuming we survive long enough.

 

[jdm61]

And on the other side, we have the wild theories of guys like Ray Kurzweil about the possibility of becoming somewhat of a cybernetic organism though the use of nanotechnology to enhance our nervous system. For all of the talk about "pure" AI, we still haven't really figured out biologically how the brain makes the kind of leaps that it does even if it appears to do it much slower than a machine. I think that the Turing test might be a bit harder to pass IF you figured out which questions you should ask in the course of your behind the curtain conversation with old Watson or even HAL that would have the best chance of stumping them. Kind of like the interview scenes in Blade Runner. Deckard eventually tripped up Rachel even though she didn't know that she was a replicant.
One of the funniest yet most uncomfortable movies in recent years was Idiocracy. It does kind of make a semi-valid point that the "fitter" are no longer the only ones surviving to breed.

The brain size phenomenon is making more and more news lately.
At least in scientific circles...

The American Journal of Anthropology sites a study carried out in China. Several hundred endocasts taken from humanoid skulls going back 7000 years have shown a steady decrease in brain size with no slowing down trend in modern humans. That's right folks... Your breeding children with smaller brain size.

Specific regions of the brain are not cited because it IS a general downsizing.
This trend is continuing...

My speculation?
As stated earlier we are relying on others to take care of our survival. Many of the original human senses are waining. Does that mean we have a more concentrated, and efficient brain?
Duke university has been trying to determine this. To date that is nothing that suggests this as a "good" part of human evolution.
In fact we as a species are thinking less. We are problem solving less. We are moving less.
A direct result that many may not correlate is we are relying on machines to such a degree that we use calculators in school, Spell check in our correspondence, cars to check the mail, and treadmills to exorcise.

In fact one of the worst things that can happen to us is right under our noses, and we pay it no attention.
I'm talking about Ceiri, Cortona, and countless other forms of data collection that is using US to program artificial intelligence.
Soon we won't need to think at all. Tell your coffee pot to wake you at 7:00am, and start your car so you can check your mail. Then curl up in the couch to work from home.

It's a rather large snowball that we have teetering in the edge here.

 

[Willie71]

The brain size phenomenon is making more and more news lately.
At least in scientific circles...

The American Journal of Anthropology sites a study carried out in China. Several hundred endocasts taken from humanoid skulls going back 7000 years have shown a steady decrease in brain size with no slowing down trend in modern humans. That's right folks... Your breeding children with smaller brain size.

Specific regions of the brain are not cited because it IS a general downsizing.
This trend is continuing...

My speculation?
As stated earlier we are relying on others to take care of our survival. Many of the original human senses are waining. Does that mean we have a more concentrated, and efficient brain?
Duke university has been trying to determine this. To date that is nothing that suggests this as a "good" part of human evolution.
In fact we as a species are thinking less. We are problem solving less. We are moving less.
A direct result that many may not correlate is we are relying on machines to such a degree that we use calculators in school, Spell check in our correspondence, cars to check the mail, and treadmills to exorcise.

In fact one of the worst things that can happen to us is right under our noses, and we pay it no attention.
I'm talking about Ceiri, Cortona, and countless other forms of data collection that are using US to program artificial intelligence.
Soon we won't need to think at all. Tell your coffee pot to wake you at 7:00am, and start your car so you can check your mail. Then curl up in the couch to work from home.

It's a rather large snowball that we have teetering in the edge here.

Our brains use about 30% of our total energy intake. That's huge in comparison to other animals. Maintaining that is a disadvantage if it's not needed.

Our obesity trend follows other examples of domestication. Just sayin'.......

 

[Willie71]

Meat and particularly COOKED meat was BIG in our evolution. the 600 number is probably low. I mentioned the 10,000 number before for the period after the theorized Toba super volcano disaster, but the lowest number I have seen theorized was 1000 BREEDING pairs, which would probably mean more like at least 3-4000 actual warm bodies. The problem with that super low number is that it might work considering the genetic "bottleneck" that we see for humans outside of Africa, but it might not work so well considering the "original" genetic diversity we see in Africa.
I talked about the fishermen earlier. That would have created a whole new pool of skills beyond the short term goal of finding food. The "Einstein" thing is a significant part what I was talking about earlier when I mentioned "critical mass" Another piece of that is when those wicked smart guys have the spare time to sit around thinking up stuff instead of harvesting millet and cattails or hunting for rats

It's not just the Einstein as an individual thing, but several together at the same time, and a way to efficiently record the knowledge. We see a direct correlation with written language and cultural expansion/increased technology.

 

[jdm61]

It's not just the Einstein as an individual thing, but several together at the same time, and a way to efficiently record the knowledge. We see a direct correlation with written language and cultural expansion/increased technology.

Absolutely and in "high" civilization the luxury of being able to sit around and come up with great ideas and figure out how to implement them is very important. The story of how Srinivasa Ramanujan figured out all of that crazy math in a hut in India with only the help of some old math books is wonderful, but you still have to understand that he had some math books even if they were old and a hut in which to read them. Sometimes a true genius doesn't need a big leg up, but any leg up can help.

 

[Zombie411]

Was it a link in this thread that explained the importance of England's first coffee house?

Maybe not... Before that coffee house the day was spent drinking alcoholic beverages as a way to circumvent "bad water".
The introduction of Tea, and Coffee allowed for the industrial revolution to happen.
If you are drunk all day, and now you are replacing that with a stimulant... things start to happen.

Today we are at an apex (IMHO).
I believe we have lost as much of what makes us human as we have gained in technology. Aside from this forum, how many people could truly survive without government interdiction on their behalf?

I'm just speaking of small inconveniences such as electric failures or gasoline shortages... Imagine a governmental collapse?
We are not what we started out as. Not at all.
That epoxy that started this thread is unimaginable to what, 90% of the earths population?

 

[kuraki]

Well, with such a well supported advocation, allow me to be the first to bow down to our new Kloudgin overlords. With any hope, AI will help end shitposting, giving us all a well needed respite before sending humanity to it's final dirt nap.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

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