old knife vs new knife

[Frakes]

Hi fellas. New to this forum. Name's Frakes. Live in Missouri.

Here's the thing. I'm in the market for a good kinda all around huntin knife and I've got one already that I like the shape and length of the blade, kinda looks like one of the old green river skinners. (I'd post pictures but all I got is the wife's phone, she's not here, and I don't know how to work this thing) I like it, but if I was gonna use it I'd have to knock the pins out and put a different handle on it (just don't fit my hand) and I'd have to make a sheathe for it. It had one at one point but it has since been lost to time. That's the thing is it's old. I don't know nothin about old knives.

The story as I understand it (from dad whose memory is, well, 80 some odd years old) is that it was forged for my great grandfather some great while ago, and the material that was used came from a leaf spring off an old dump truck. I took it to the old boy that still does the blacksmithing for the amish around here and he told me that it was low carbon steel, full tang, definitely hand forged, and pretty well made. He then proceeded to stick it in a vice and flex it first one way then the other, kinda making me cringe, then hauled it out and told me it was still straight as an arrow, tossed it back to me and said, "Seems like a good knife, but that's about all I can tell ya."

I just don't wanna go through a bunch of trouble over a knife that isn't gonna hold an edge or have some other kind of problem (aside from tendency to rust. know that one already) when it's essentially just a conversation piece at this point. But I just don't know. I mean, I'm not an idiot but what do I know about metallurgy?

I guess my question here is is there any advantage to usin an old knife like this instead of whatever I can just buy at cabellas or whatever?

 

[Dan57]

I guess my question here is is there any advantage to usin an old knife like this instead of whatever I can just buy at cabellas or whatever?

Not really. I would keep the knife for its sentimental value, (maybe store it someplace safe and where it won't rust,) and buy a new one for using. If you like a skinner blade shape, you may want to look into a Condor Hivernant, Svord Curved Skinner, or Svord Kiwi Curved Skinner.

 

[MNofUSN]

Not really. I would keep the knife for its sentimental value...

agreed Old knives are great, if It is still usable i say use it

If it is a Real POS with zero purpose or personal connection, drop it and get a new one

 

[leifjl]

i like the idea of carrying around and using something my great grandpa carried and used. thats the advantage of the old knife to me. cut some stuff with it and see how she holds an edge, if it holds a decent edge thats the knife i'd carry.

 

[Frakes]

Well, I guess that would be the best way to test it by god. Don't know why it didn't occur to me to just do that.

Thanks for takin the time fellas.

 

[timberweasel]

Welcome to the Forums, Frakes! :thumbup:

Cheers!

-Timber

 

[Frakes]

Hey Timber, thanks man!

Ok so I took Leifjl's advice, spent a few minutes on the stone with the old knife, just enough to put a little edge on there, and then went and did some cuttin. I carved around on an old cow bone the dog drug up from god knows where and every time I pitch it out of the yard he just goes and finds it so it was handy, and it was bone, so I figured it'd make a good test. Repeated stabbings into the bone, with the bone layin on the porch and me hittin it it pretty good didn't flatten the tip, or really even seem to dull it. Similar carvings with other parts of the blade produced similar results, including several chops hard enough to stick the bone to the knife. After which I went and sliced up some cardboard I had layin around and it made nice smooth cuts, no jagged edges, just sliced right through. And that's without "really" makin an effort to put an edge on her.

Point is, figure it's a pretty solid knife, far as that goes.

So I broke out the wd-40 and the steel wool and cleaned off the little bit of surface rust there was, but that's where i run into another head scratcher. The rust came off just fine, but it didn't really polish up like I expected it would. It's got like, I don't know, black stuff on it that won't come off.

I'll try to include some pictures here that my wife took.

[/URL][/IMG]

[/URL][/IMG]

[/URL][/IMG]

[/URL][/IMG]

Ok there's the pictures. I probably could've arranged em better or something but the fact that I was able to figure out how to put em on there at all I think deserves a celebratory beer.

Ok now, when ya run your finger over the side of the knife, just feelin it, it's as smooth as glass. That looks like some kind of tarnish or rust or somethin to me but you'd think you could be able to feel it if it was. I mean, if that's what it's supposed to look like that's fine but if I could polish it up I would like to. However, if wd-40 don't do it, I pretty much gotta ask what will. It may be that it's just in the metal and there's nothin I can do about it. I honestly don't know.

Also, you can see in the picture of the back that it's rough. It's not like deep pits or anything, it's just not smooth like the rest of it. I mean I'm sure I could grind it down to smooth it out, but I don't really see any reason to. Really I just thought it was weird lookin so I took a picture of it.

I also put that picture in lookin straight down on the blade balanced on my finger cause when ya hold it like up, then let go of it, it just kinda does that little balancing act on your index finger. Again, don't know that that means anything, just never had a knife that would do that.

Understand, I realize I'm just messin around with an old knife that's supposed to be a family heirloom and there's probably people thinkin "ah just throw that junk away!" and that's ok, but I would like to at least keep it at this point, and probably use it, I just don't know a whole lot about it far as how to really take care of it, what it's supposed to look like,that kind of thing.

So, opinions? thoughts? As always, thanks in advance.

Frakes

 

[Shotgun]

Do NOT throw the knife away. It's still perfectly serviceable from the pics. And darn good looking to my eyes.

The black stuff is a patina. Think of it as "good rust." The darker it gets the better protection it will have from "bad/orange rust." I force a patina on my knives with vinegar and it does help it from not rusting. I tipped a canoe last year and spent about an hour bailing the thing out and the whole time I had a non-stainless knife on me submerged in the river. After I got out I dried it off and the only spot of rust I had was on the blade where there was no patina.Look around the site and you'll see a bunch of people putting patinas on there knives for protection against the elements. You can even get creative with it. I forced a patina on the top one in this pic. It's darker in person.


So the knife looks decent, passed a flex test, and you proved it held an edge. I say rehandle it and use it.

Oh and PS. Keep it away from power tools. You can ruin the heat treat and ruin the knife. If you want to polish it you can buy some polishing compound and just polish it by hand like you would a copper kettle. I use Flitz but any metal polish will work.

 

[goodshepherdknives]

hello frakes, welcome thanks for taking the time to share. i have some restoration pictures on my website if youre interested

 

[Dan57]

Also, you can see in the picture of the back that it's rough. It's not like deep pits or anything, it's just not smooth like the rest of it. I mean I'm sure I could grind it down to smooth it out, but I don't really see any reason to. Really I just thought it was weird lookin so I took a picture of it.

Looks like the blacksmith who forged it never polished the spine.

I also put that picture in lookin straight down on the blade balanced on my finger cause when ya hold it like up, then let go of it, it just kinda does that little balancing act on your index finger. Again, don't know that that means anything, just never had a knife that would do that.

It doesn't mean much, just that the knife has a neutral balance. All your previous knives must have been blade or handle heavy.

Understand, I realize I'm just messin around with an old knife that's supposed to be a family heirloom and there's probably people thinkin "ah just throw that junk away!"

Nobody's thinking that. Nobody with any sense, anyway.

but I would like to at least keep it at this point, and probably use it, I just don't know a whole lot about it far as how to really take care of it, what it's supposed to look like,that kind of thing.

Just keep the blade oiled so it doesn't rust up again. Most anything will work, but Mineral Oil, Fluid Film, and Ballistol are all popular around here. Oiling the wood wouldn't be a bad idea, either. Mineral, Tung, and Linseed oil work well for this.

 

[Confederate]

Well, your knife sounds like a good keepsake and if it suits your purposes, why not continue using it?

Most people here have several boxes of knives, at least. Some complain that their blades aren't made from the latest supersteel, but compared to blades from a century ago, most modern knives are many times better. A century ago and beyond, people didn't waste anything. A leaf spring could be used to easily produce a knife, and regardless of the carbon levels it still could be converted to a knife and the edges sharpened to do most types of chores. Ages before that, when craftsmen produced fine weapons, there was a pride of ownership; however, in the 1800s and especially during the wars and the Depression, you used what you had unless you were wealthy.

Today, Americans can collect fine knives and firearms, and drive nice cars which they trade in or sell to buy new ones. In many third world countries, and in the deserts of Saudi Arabia, people would be speechless if someone gave them a good knife like an Ontario Marine Raider or a Ka-Bar Large Bowie. Chances are their grandchildren would be using it long after their progenitor had died. And if a knife's handle broke, someone undoubtedly would try to fix it; it wouldn't go to waste. But we misplace our knives, let them rust, sometimes don't take proper care of them and yes, we occasionally try to destroy them.

When I was a kid, I didn't much like folding knives because they didn't lock. I had a Boy Scout knife, the blade of which got stuck in some wood and snapped back on my thumb. But I had a machete that allowed me to make quite a bit of money cutting back peoples' Creeping Johnnies. You can get one like it now for almost nothing, but since it made me money and I didn't have a lot, I kept the machete clean and well oiled. If circumstances had been otherwise, I might have kept that machete for years and done that kind of work.

Anyway, my point is that you can most likely get any knife you want if you somehow find a deficiency in the knife you have. Maybe you like them and want to collect them, or perhaps you need one smaller or larger. Many good knives are eminently affordable, made of superb materials and easy on the eyes. And some folding knives these days are practically as strong as fixed blades (the Cold Steel Rajah II comes to mind). So the only limitation is your $$$.

Good photos. Thanks for posting.

 

[Adrstout]

In my min keep it (of course!) and use it. Don't abuse it by any means but do t be afraid to put it through its paces. Your ancestors would be proud to see that thing still in use. I'm o my 25 but if my kids or grand kids were to use one of my knives after I was gone, I would be nothing but proud.

 

[killgar]

We can't take our stuff with us. Might as well use it while we can.

I never met your great grandfather, but I'll bet that what he would say is "That knife was made to be used, so USE IT". I think that's the best way to "honor" that knife, it's previous owners, and the craftsman who made it with his own two hands.

 

[Frakes]

Wow. I really appreciate the opinions and advice. I really mean that. I feel like I started with some rusty old piece of metal that just got pawned off on me and that I could probably bend into an L with my bare hands if I tried real hard. Now I feel like I've got a piece of family history that I'll probably pass on to the boy someday.

Plus, it seems like a good project too since I probably will put a handle on it (might save the old one just in case) and definitely tool a sheathe for it (something I know considerably more about ). A good knife, a good project, and probably a good gift someday. What more could a guy want from a piece of metal?

Thanks for all the help fellas. And thanks again for takin the time.

Frakes

 

[DShiflet]

I'll try to include some pictures here that my wife took.

[/URL][/IMG]

[/URL][/IMG]

[/URL][/IMG]

[/URL][/IMG]

Ok there's the pictures. I probably could've arranged em better or something but the fact that I was able to figure out how to put em on there at all I think deserves a celebratory beer.

Frakes

That's a nice looking knife man, no way I'd throw it away.

 

[Bo T]

Well now Frakes, that Amish blacksmith was mistaken. The knife is a high carbon steel with 60 to 80 points of carbon in it. Get some sand paper and shape the handle so it fits you. Get some leather and make a sheath for it. That knife comes with some good Mojo. Take it out huntin and use it to skin and butcher whatever Ungulates and pigs y'all hunt in Missouri. Get yourself a nice 3" clip point for cleaning the game. After you've put up enough game to feed yourself and family for the next 20 or so years the width of the blade will be such that it will make a nice boning knife. Then go out and have a blacksmith make you another one. Keep the pictures you have now for pondering. 20 years after that give the one you had made to kin and make the boning knife into a paring knife. Don't worry about the Mojo it will transfer into the new knives as you use them.

 

[The Mastiff]

I agree with Bo. That is likely 5160 spring steel. You will find knives are still made from it, and well thought of. It's tough, easy to sharpen and works very well for the things we like knives to do.

Just customize whatever bothers you about it now and keep it to use. You can keep it oiled, waxed ,or siliconed just like the guns you hunt with. Don't worry about the coloration in the steel. It isn't a problem and would take more effort to polish the blade than it is worth, unless that is what you really want to do.

Use it and enjoy. People often find the fancy modern expensive knives work no better than the old forged knives made of spring steel.

Joe

 

[simioh]

The coolest knives are the ones that have a history.

 

[Locutus D'Borg]

And if you don't mind, I'll just call you Number One

 

[leifjl]

im glad you posted the pictures. great knife, great story. very cool.