Old Knives: "Caretaker Obligation" vs. "Tools Ment To Be Used"

Rick

Rick

Joined
Nov 27, 1998
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I've accumulated quite a few more-or-less minty old slip-joints over the years, and I feel an obligation to preserve them in the best possible condition. Most of them were made long before I was born, and I hope they'll be appreciated long after I'm gone. The thought of dropping a pristine old XX greenbone or an cleanly-etched old Remington in my pocket for EDC strikes me as selfish and wasteful of a very finite example of cutlery history.

But where to draw the line between heirloom and user? I've thought about carrying some of my dotted '70s knives, but they're dead mint and they just don't make em like that any more...

What about this little old Ulster Swayback? The blades were heavily cleaned - probably by Herb Aycock - so its value as a collectible has been sorely compromised, but it's still a rare knife, and at least sixty-eight years old; perhaps over a century. On the other hand, it's comfy and razor-sharp, and it sure would sit nicely in my change-pocket...

UlsterSwayBack01.jpg


UlsterSwayBack02.jpg


And it's not like I don't have enough users already!

Where do you draw the line between caretaker and tool user?
 
Oh Man! I would use that one for sure. Cleaned blades or not, its a cool little swayback.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

Ken
 
Gorgeous knife. As for the answer, I feel strongly both ways. (Not even trying to be facetious.)

The right decision is the one you happen to be comfortable with imho.

FWIW, I've had no qualms about putting my 70's Dots knives to the stone, nor even some older vintage knives from the 20's and 30's. I just had to know some things about those knives.
 
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Hmmm...

Depends on what you mean by value. If you mean monetary value to another collector, then I would refrain from using them. If you mean value as an heirloom that your children and grandchildren will treasure, then I'd use it. I've always felt like a used, but well cared for and loved, tool has a bit more spirit. I definitely feel some of Grandpa's mojo whenever I use the ancient, but still very sharp and useable, Case Trapper he gave me 20 years ago. That's why I haven't yet had the heart to retire the thing.
 
Thanks for the comments so far. You can see why I'm tempted to carry that puppy.
Carolina River Rat said:
Hmmm...

Depends on what you mean by value. If you mean monetary value to another collector, then I would refrain from using them.
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I guess I'm thinking of the 'big picture' in addition to their monetary value. If everyone used their rare old minty knives, future collectors would eventually be deprived of the privilege of first-hand experience with the delicate and potentially ephemeral old factory finishes.

If you mean value as an heirloom that your children and grandchildren will treasure, then I'd use it. I've always felt like a used, but well cared for and loved, tool has a bit more spirit. I definitely feel some of Grandpa's mojo whenever I use the ancient, but still very sharp and useable, Case Trapper he gave me 20 years ago. That's why I haven't yet had the heart to retire the thing.
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That's a valid point, but having no kids, it's difficult to justify using a old mint knife when I have so many viable alternitives, and the way things are going, the future of Man's Oldest Tool as an EDC companion is pretty shaky. :(
 
I undersatnd your thoughts and reservations on using the old mint condition knives....
As Elliott said, its entirely up to you as to what your comfortable doing.
I use to feel the same way. However, after I got through the initial fear of carrying and using them, I noticed there is a HUGE amount pride and satisfaction pulling a nice old knife out of my pocket to use, or even just fondle and admire....
It will take a lot of years to instill much wear if ya use it for everyday chores like most of us.

I do like to have a good user with me though for tasks that are a little more severe duty. Which in all honesty doesn't happen that often anymore.

Life is short, enjoy everything ya can. BTW that Ulster is an absolute beauty
 
Well, right at this moment, I have an old Miller Bros congress in my pocket (probably 1910-1920) -- one I originally got in unused condition (not mint though -- blades had generous spotting with maybe only 50% of the original surface remaining). It's nothing really special as value goes - an advertising knife with pretty ivory cel scales stamped "GASS & STEHL" on the mark side and "1508 LAFAYETTE AVE." on the other - but it *is* a very sweet knife that I like a lot. Another favorite to carry is a Case XX 6208 - again I got it in unused but not mint condition (though it was a lot closer to mint than the Miller Bros) -- I kept it unused for a while, but eventually decided what the hell, sharpened it up, and enjoyed it. I carried a German Eye Brand "three-eye" congress (mid'50s-mid'60s I think?) for several years as my work knife -- I originally got it in almost mint condition, but I've enjoyed the heck out of it and cared for it well - so it's still only warming up on its useful life. My knives that are in most danger of being used are those that I really like -- this also means that should I decide to do any selling off, they're the very last knives I would ever part with. I *like* them, they *mean* something to me -- they're not just an untouched object in my collection.

Let's face it, *none* of us are in any danger of putting any significant wear and tear on any of our knives -- unless it should happen to be a specific "beater" knife we have just for that purpose. Most of us would be set for the next thousand years if we had to live long enough to wear out all of our knives. Any knife we use will be cared for extremely well and will show little sign of our passing beyond a sharp edge and a bit of patina. For me, unused but not mint knives, or those with little use, or those that have been "cleaned" are all fair game - assuming I really *like* them. This last is very important to me -- otherwise I don't see any reason to put them in my pocket. Your Ulster swayback would likely be in extreme danger of being carried if I had it (though I'd take some really fine sandpaper and knock that horrible fake mint buffed finish off first - it offends me to see that on such a fine knife).

-- Dwight
 
338375 said:
I do like to have a good user with me though for tasks that are a little more severe duty.
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That may prove to be the solution to my dilemma: carrying the Ulster or similarly "compromised" old slippy for finish-friendly light and delicate duty, along with a robust and carefree working folder.

I don't usually like to be weighted down with a redundancy of multiple pocketknives, but your suggestion provides a real incentive.

Thanks!
 
There are many many knives to carry and lose. I personally don't think I'd have a rare old mint knife as a user. I'd maybe carry a rare mint knife for a rare event. However I'd say enjoy your knife any way you see fit.
 
A knife that beautiful just screams to be used. If it were never used, and in mint condition, I might put it in the safe. But since it's been restored, that just gives me enough reason to start using it.

And I agree with Don. It's as if the art of making great jigged bone has been lost over time. The scales on that knife are GORGEOUS!!!!
 
It should be carried used and shared. I have found one of the greatest means of sharing my appreciation of knives as tools and as art is to let folks see them being used. It neaver fails that interest is aroused by any fine example helping to plant the seed of appreciation in someone elses eyes.
 
Use 'em!

I think that Carolina River Rat summed it up for me; there's smething cold and lacking in a pristine new mint condition knife. It's like it's never lived, or had any memories attached to it. No mojo from grandad or anyone else. Just stored away, never being used for what it was intended for. That's a little sad. But then I don't now, or have ever, understood the collector thing.

If the knife in question belonged to a loved and departed family member, then I'd store it away as a family heirloom, as I have done with my grandads and dad's and uncles knives. Include a photo or two of the person and a letter about them. But if it's just a knife that you picked up in a trade, or bought, use it well. Enjoy it for what it is.
 
Dear Sir:

I fully understand your hesitancy in carrying the knife. I am more than happy to volunteer to carry it for you and report back on how things are going. Just let me know and I will pay for shipping.

Respectfully

XBXB;);)
 
xbxb said:
Dear Sir:

I fully understand your hesitancy in carrying the knife. I am more than happy to volunteer to carry it for you and report back on how things are going. Just let me know and I will pay for shipping.

Respectfully

XBXB;);)
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Get in line :D lol
Thats an incredible looking knife and great pics too ...
 
Rick, I want to thank you for asking an interesting and relevant question! The fact that you recognize there may be an obligation is refreshing and encouraging to me. If everything in human events were done in a thoughtful manner, this world would run much more smoothly, and we would have a proud legacy for our children's children.
The fact that the subject of pocketknives is only a small part of all things we engage in doesn't matter as much as the manner we engage with it. It reflects our attitude. Preserving examples of the golden age of cutlery, will provide inspiration for those who follow us, because they show us what beauty and usefulness combined, can be like.
I look at a mint example of a knife that is 80 or 120 years old, or I use one that is the same age, and each provides a different form of pleasure and pride.
Watching a knife age and mellow, shows me the value of the quality put into that knife in the first place. But seeing it as the artisans deemed it complete, proudly presented in freshly minted condition, is a fragile thing. Use it, sharpen it, and history is lost.
As a collector, I feel an obligation to preserve the results of that proud era of knife making. And as a collector, I have a hundred beautiful used knives to carry and use.
It would be the epitome of conceit, and largely stupid to take my mint ones, sharpen 'em all up, and tote 'em around.
There is a place for preserving history, and for contemplating it. I collect knives to savor and preserve that history. I hope we all know what happens when we ignore history!!
But being part of the aging process is one of the pleasures of this game we play also. I would carry and use that Ulster with pleasure. And I would savor the fact that the Dwight Devine kept making beautiful knives, at a loss, rather than compromise his ideals!
 
If I had a knife that truly had historical value, I would put it in a case and show it to all and sundry for education and enjoyment. When I got old, I would sell or give it to a genuine collector who would preserve it, so all who came after me could enjoy and learn from it.
 
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