"Old Knives"

I agree Dave
I think the Saw Cut Bone looked way better before he took the age of it, he used all the things that shouldn't go anywhere near a knife! A Dremel with a Steel Wire Wheel, Grinder, Sandpaper and Flitz.
The Knife wasn't worth $475 to start with, it was worn down to a nice pocket carry that looked beautiful - gorgeous with all that Patina - why did it need cleaning up? I would have picked that knife up nice and quick before he got it, but with it being all shiny with shiny pitting etc- Yuk! its absolutely worthless now. Too much of this going on now.
 
Campbellclanman said:
I agree Dave
I think the Saw Cut Bone looked way better before he took the age of it, he used all the things that shouldn't go anywhere near a knife! A Dremel with a Steel Wire Wheel, Grinder, Sandpaper and Flitz.
The Knife wasn't worth $475 to start with, it was worn down to a nice pocket carry that looked beautiful - gorgeous with all that Patina - why did it need cleaning up? I would have picked that knife up nice and quick before he got it, but with it being all shiny with shiny pitting etc- Yuk! its absolutely worthless now. Too much of this going on now.
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Totally agree Duncan, also that 475 he shows in the book is for a mint unused original knife which are almost impossible to find, a heavily cleaned knife with blade wear and pits is far from a mint knife, shiny does not equate to mint.

This unused Case Tested barlow is the closest I have to mint, found tied in a gift box, it had acquired some rust from sitting unused many decades, just did a light oiling to stop further corrosion, the small amount of staining from the corrosion keeps it from being mint.


 
Augie said:
Totally agree Duncan, also that 475 he shows in the book is for a mint unused original knife which are almost impossible to find, a heavily cleaned knife with blade wear and pits is far from a mint knife, shiny does not equate to mint.

This unused Case Tested barlow is the closest I have to mint, found tied in a gift box, it had acquired some rust from sitting unused many decades, just did a light oiling to stop further corrosion, the small amount of staining from the corrosion keeps it from being mint.


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Mint - Schmint!!!
That's such a perfect specimen of a traditional Barlow!! Shows its age, but shows the spirit of an Ancient Barlow - the inexpensive working-person's tool!! I'm impressed - enormously!!!
 
Now I know what was really meant when it was said that there are a bunch of guys on here who worship rust. :D

Who wants to carry a cruddy looking rusty knife anyway? Not me. To each his own. It takes all kinds.

Anyway the title of the video was clickbaity. I'll give you that. There's no way to avoid that on youtube though. The guy plainly says the book price was for mint condition and from around 2008. Who knows what it is now. I sure don't. 🤷‍♂️

I'm glad to see someone restore a knife and carry it, and I'm glad to see the joy that he got from it. And after all, he literally paid 5 dollars for it. Can't beat that. I detect a hint of jealousy.

I don't worship rust. ;)
 
I kinda read a bit of smart sarcasm in the comments of worshipping rust. I don't think you quite understand and you are confusing how a Knife Collector or Traditional Knife enthusiast regard Rust with Patina.

None of us worship Rust! ;)

Myself I go through MASSIVE pains going through my Knives in a Humid environment trying to keep them maintained and oiled and Renaissance Waxed, I don't think you will find one person here who likes Rust in the slightest.

I am glad the guy gets enjoyment- but he is teaching other people the wrong way.

The video theme seemed to be based on the excitement of value but with his not knowing about Knives that's for a MINT example shown in the Book, what he had ( I do mean HAD) a knife on the complete opposite side of the spectrum there. As Augie stated above.

So he was all excited over nothing, one would know that you destroy ANY value by doing just one of the many things he did to that Knife. That Knife isn't worth $30 now - well maybe? depending on the buyer.

Sure! A Knife that has bad rust on is in need of a clean to become even useful, once a Knife has bad rust it won't ever be, nor can it ever be bought back to be what is called tidy, Excellent or Mint.

What is super important is keeping the Patina on a Knife- Patina is not rust, you can clean off red active rust with 0000 ( ensure it is quad triple zero ) Steel Wool with Mineral Oil and this will not remove Patina, and will most certainly not shine up an old knife.

I get heavier rust off by scraping with a dull blade or a softer metal blade ( done properly will not leave any form of scratching whatsoever) holding on the correct angle and this removes the heavier rust before you can start with the steel wool process, 0000 Steel Wool does not remove patina..

The only thing that Knife in the video needed was a careful Edge put back on the Knife - and it would have been a superb EDC and a nice example to show and use.

Patina is history, its the same principle when you see a "Barn find" of an older Car- its worth WAY more original, than restored.
So by Grinding, Sanding, Flitzing, Polishing you are literally wiping away ALL of its History- which includes the original Cutlers touch on the Knife! - that's a real shame. I have done this exact thing in my earlier years - thankfully on not too many knives.

So it's not Rust "we" love, Its a knife that we call Honest.
What "we" don't like is an old knife that is shinier than a new one- even in the rust pits - nothing looks more horrible than that.
 
Campbellclanman said:
The video theme seemed to be based on the excitement of value but with his not knowing about Knives that's for a MINT example shown in the Book, what he had ( I do mean HAD) a knife on the complete opposite side of the spectrum there. As Augie stated above.
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He called it out himself. He plainly says that he knows the price is for mint. I don't see the problem. It's not like he didn't know. He acknowledges it. And then he talks about how much it is worth to him. "I wouldn't take 400 dollars for this". That's the value which he personally places on it. Where he goes wrong is with the clickbaity title. But that's how youtube works. You can't get away from that.

Too many people forget that it's all subjective anyway. Something is worth however much someone else is willing to pay for it, and this often changes over time. It can go up or down based on supply, demand, and preferences. Things tend to follow trends which are eventually subject to change. These aren't basic necessities that we are talking about with a steady flow and a steady demand.

Campbellclanman said:
What "we" don't like is an old knife that is shinier than a new one- even in the rust pits - nothing looks more horrible than that.
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I get that you love your "honest" oxidation. As for me I'll happily clean up and old knife and then force a patina. I don't care about it not being "honest".

Your way isn't the only way of judging something. It depends on the values of the individual. However it is a fair and realistic comment to point out how the majority of collectors judge things.
 
I don't agree with what your saying- and this doesn't mean it has to be an argument.

As you say, there is a majority collectors having knowledge of what something is worth in it's condition, there is reasoning behind this.
His "restoration" did not in any way save that Knife that didn't need saving- it wasn't rusty, all it wanted was a edge put on it and some oil in the joints - he took it right down and stripped everything that Knife had - OFF!
The Knife that he started with wasn't rusty - it was patina'd there was little to no active rust on the Knife that a Mineral Oil on a Rag couldn't have dealt with, I'm not sure what Knife you saw but I didn't see a cruddy looking rusty Knife?

Let's get one thing very clear- this Knife was not restored in any way whatsoever- he cleaned it with a Scotch Brite Fiber wheel on a Grinder and a Wire wheel on a Dremel and then sanded it down! The knife was no better after he finished it, in fact way worse.

Of course you can do what you want with your knives - that's your taste and your rights on ownership, agreed 100%, on the flip side of that if you place that Video on a forum on OLD KNIVES expect a little feedback whether it be bad or good, when there is someone doing that to that Knife.
When you got some feedback by a couple of very knowledgeable folk ( not me ) you come back with comments on how how you heard there was a bunch of guys who love rust, and also that you detect a bit of jealousy! My friend- you are way off on both of those comments, all those comments did was expose your lack of understanding.

I believe the guy in the video really believes that he has a Knife now after he "Restored " it that it exceeds the $400 mark with ease, A Knife that he bought for $5.

The same reason as to why most people don't buy a '68 RS/SS Camaro 396 Big Block manual, then wrap it in Chrome Wrapping and put 24 inch wheels on it, and take out the motor and box and replace it with a Mazda Rotary - because the car is now ruined to the traditional lovers of Muscle cars - it's changed forever, but has a bit of a liking in the new wave generation of people who may like that kind of thing, it is the same principle. Like you say each to their own - it take all kinds.

Guy McVer said:
Now I know what was really meant when it was said that there are a bunch of guys on here who worship rust. :D

Who wants to carry a cruddy looking rusty knife anyway? Not me. To each his own. It takes all kinds.

Anyway the title of the video was clickbaity. I'll give you that. There's no way to avoid that on youtube though. The guy plainly says the book price was for mint condition and from around 2008. Who knows what it is now. I sure don't. 🤷‍♂️

I'm glad to see someone restore a knife and carry it, and I'm glad to see the joy that he got from it. And after all, he literally paid 5 dollars for it. Can't beat that. I detect a hint of jealousy.

I don't worship rust. ;)
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All in all, discussions are healthy and I am glad that you are here to share your opinion in Blade-forums :) :thumbsup:
 
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Campbellclanman said:
As you say, there is a majority collectors having knowledge of what something is worth in it's condition, there is reasoning behind this.
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I wouldn't use the word "knowledge" in that way, because it's not knowledge of value or worth at all. It's just knowledge of what the majority preferences are, or at least what the common perception of the majority preference is. You're talking like the worth of a knife is something set in stone. It isn't. Even if you're holding a book with everything listed with a price next to it, and it was just printed 5 minutes ago, it's still only a suggestion. It's subjective.

Too many people make the mistake of thinking there is only one way of looking at something, and everything and everyone else is simply wrong if they deviate from that way. That's foolishness at best. It's arrogance and snobbery at worst. With respect, you can keep that. I don't want it.

Now as I said before, it's totally fair and realistic to point out how a majority of collectors think and how they tend to judge what something is worth. By all means. But to look down on somebody who deviates from that? That's a step too far.
 
Guy McVer said:
"I wouldn't use the word "knowledge" in that way, because it's not knowledge of value or worth at all. It's just knowledge of what the majority preferences are, or at least what the common perception of the majority preference is. You're talking like the worth of a knife is something set in stone. It isn't. Even if you're holding a book with everything listed with a price next to it, and it was just printed 5 minutes ago, it's still only a suggestion. It's subjective."

Too many people make the mistake of thinking there is only one way of looking at something, and everything and everyone else is simply wrong if they deviate from that way. That's foolishness at best. It's arrogance and snobbery at worst. With respect, you can keep that. I don't want it.

Now as I said before, it's totally fair and realistic to point out how a majority of collectors think and how they tend to judge what something is worth. By all means. But to look down on somebody who deviates from that? That's a step too far.
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Awesome! :) :thumbsup: Can I try that one when you are selling your house? 🤣 Forget Capital gain- its a myth, I'll give you 10 grand more than what you paid for it 10 years ago :thumbsup:

Now this is going in circles,

I'm all in for being exposed as a student in the learning of Knives and suspect I won't ever be an expert as there is so much to learn and so much history is lost through Wars and with documentation simply being thrown away in the earlier years by Cutler companies that had the answers to our questions,
At the end of the day this place is about traditional Knives and this is a very cool place to be in the web that seems to have a majority of extremely well versed people on the subject of knives so we can all come here and learn, I hope you can join us. :):thumbsup:
 
Campbellclanman said:
Awesome! :) :thumbsup: Can I try that one when you are selling your house?
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Absolutely, yes you can! People do it all the time. That's exactly how things work in the housing market. There is no real fixed price. You can only estimate the value and the house will sell for whatever the buyer and the seller agree upon. That's why people make offers, and you're free to decline or accept them.

Campbellclanman said:
Now this is going in circles
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Well that's really up to you.

I hope you will learn one day not to view everything from such a closed minded standpoint, such as telling people what they've done doesn't actually qualify as a restoration simply because you don't personally place value on returning a knife to a state closer to what it was originally (which by the way happens to be the textbook definition of restoration). There's no need to try to invalidate someone's work just because you don't agree with what they did.

Cheers.
 
Guy McVer said:
Absolutely, yes you can! People do it all the time. That's exactly how things work in the housing market. There is no real fixed price. You can only estimate the value and the house will sell for whatever the buyer and the seller agree upon. That's why people make offers, and you're free to decline or accept them.



Well that's really up to you.

I hope you will learn one day not to view everything from such a closed minded standpoint, such as telling people what they've done doesn't actually qualify as a restoration simply because you don't personally place value on returning a knife to a state closer to what it was originally (which by the way happens to be the textbook definition of restoration). There's no need to try to invalidate someone's work just because you don't agree with what they did.

Cheers.
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It's only "closer to what it was originally" to someone who doesn't really understand antiques or restoration. No knowledgeable collector would see that as valid restoration. Neither would a museum curator. That video shows someone damaging an old knife, not restoring it.

Regarding values, you are confusing expert assessments of general value with what someone might theoretically get by selling it to a non-knowledgeable buyer. If a conman can get $1000 for a $2 fake Rolex, does that mean it's really worth $1000? Not in any normal use of the word "value", no.

This is a video where a non-expert damages an old knife. You shared it to a discussion thread for enthusiasts of old knives, some of whom are extremely knowledgeable. You then keep insulting people for their narrowness, and telling them that they need to learn. The bad thing is not your lack of knowledge or your rudeness - it's that the combination of those two things is keeping you from learning. This is a great place for you to learn a lot about knives from people who know a lot more than you (or the person in that video). Don't miss out on that. You're the one being close-minded here, but you can change that.
 
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