I have a question people keep telling me that if you can get it always go with old steel because its better and stronger than new steel so my question is why is that is it because new steel has been recycled over and over again and thats made it weaker because I also hear that if its good steel it can be recycled again and again and still retain its stregth any info on this subject would be great thanks.
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old steel vs new steel
- Thread starter hirokatsu
- Start date
I think you have probably been misled to a certain extent. Properly treated, steel can be used time and again, but sooner or later, decarb is going to take it's toll. There is nothing wrong with new steel and it has the benefits of being a known steel, which many recycled steels truly are not.
The very best steels are the new super alloys in their 'straight from the mill' condition.
There may be a few exceptions. Years ago, ATS34 was a high quality clean steel. I'd take it over the current offering any day.
More important than the 'age' of the steel is what you have to work the steel - what the blade's intended purpose is - and whether you truly know what kind of steel you have.
You are going to spend between 20 - 100 hours working on your knife, and at $20 an hour, that translates to between 400 and 2000 dollars. An 8 or 9 inch piece of very high quality blade steel will cost you about $15 - $20. There are good reasons to use OTS (old truck springs) but economy is NOT one of them - nor is superior quality of a recycled steel.
My 2 cents - not guaranteed accurate.
Rob!
The very best steels are the new super alloys in their 'straight from the mill' condition.
There may be a few exceptions. Years ago, ATS34 was a high quality clean steel. I'd take it over the current offering any day.
More important than the 'age' of the steel is what you have to work the steel - what the blade's intended purpose is - and whether you truly know what kind of steel you have.
You are going to spend between 20 - 100 hours working on your knife, and at $20 an hour, that translates to between 400 and 2000 dollars. An 8 or 9 inch piece of very high quality blade steel will cost you about $15 - $20. There are good reasons to use OTS (old truck springs) but economy is NOT one of them - nor is superior quality of a recycled steel.
My 2 cents - not guaranteed accurate.
Rob!
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2007
- Messages
- 898
Age of steel doesnt matter, honestly I would go for newer steels because of quality control. Scrap steel smelted into new steel without controlling the composition is junk, but reused steel smelted with control of the composition is fine. I can take a bail of barbed wire and forge weld it into a knife, but it will be junk. Now I could also take the same steel smelt it in a small tatara (smelter like a blast furnace) to make new high carbon steel and then make a knife, much better. To simplify what I mean composition matters, age does not.
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2003
- Messages
- 2,361
Steel making technology continues to advance and the better alloys today are some of the best materials ever produced, just not all are very suitable for knifemaking
, so it could be a matter for perspective. High tech applications are getting alloys of quality never before dreamed of, while knifemakers are still working with the same alloys that have been around for a century or more. I bigger problem with our steels is that they are dinosaurs and we may not be able to get them soon, regardless of their quality, as they are consigned to the shelves of obsolescence.
As for our simple steels, I guess it all comes down to who is making them and their quality control. The problem to watch are the trace elements, those little chemistry numbers off to the side of the actual alloying on the spec sheets. Things like copper, which is problematic for an obvious reason; when recycling modern objects, so many of them will contain wiring and other electrical components made from copper. If this isn’t meticulously picked clean and separated how much copper inadvertently gets added to the remelt? Steel is one of the most recyclable materials we have ever had but we need to keep it clean when doing it.
As for using old scrap junk on the chance that it may be better 1095 than what is being made today. Well with the new stuff I can at least see a chemistry with those trace elements and determine that myself, and still nail the heat treat, regardless of the microscopic rough spots. I could heat and re-heat treat for the next year on a rusty old chunk of mystery metal and still not have much to show for it. I will take the dirtiest chunk of new 1095, and know exactly what I am getting, both the good and the bad, over unknown junk any day. The logic is pretty cut and dried.
, so it could be a matter for perspective. High tech applications are getting alloys of quality never before dreamed of, while knifemakers are still working with the same alloys that have been around for a century or more. I bigger problem with our steels is that they are dinosaurs and we may not be able to get them soon, regardless of their quality, as they are consigned to the shelves of obsolescence. As for our simple steels, I guess it all comes down to who is making them and their quality control. The problem to watch are the trace elements, those little chemistry numbers off to the side of the actual alloying on the spec sheets. Things like copper, which is problematic for an obvious reason; when recycling modern objects, so many of them will contain wiring and other electrical components made from copper. If this isn’t meticulously picked clean and separated how much copper inadvertently gets added to the remelt? Steel is one of the most recyclable materials we have ever had but we need to keep it clean when doing it.
As for using old scrap junk on the chance that it may be better 1095 than what is being made today. Well with the new stuff I can at least see a chemistry with those trace elements and determine that myself, and still nail the heat treat, regardless of the microscopic rough spots. I could heat and re-heat treat for the next year on a rusty old chunk of mystery metal and still not have much to show for it. I will take the dirtiest chunk of new 1095, and know exactly what I am getting, both the good and the bad, over unknown junk any day. The logic is pretty cut and dried.