older stockmans versus newer ones (USA)

kyhunt

kyhunt

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I was just wondering after reading another post about the difference in flat grind versus the modern grind on Buck knives. I have a few older Buck Stockman (2) 301's , a 303 , and a 309 with flat grind and brass liners. I have a Bob Timberlake Buck 303 with the new grind and no brass liners. Why did they change the grind? Secondly are all the newer Stockmen without liners?
 
Just on the 301's sitting here on my desk, I have a 1989 with separate brass liners, and a 1991 without them.
 
The newer hollow grind is the "Edge 2000" profile that Buck developed after working with the CATRA machine. It greatly enhances the cutting performance of the blade.

On a similar note, I just purchased a 301 and a 303, both of 90's vintage, because I wanted the flat grind. On a traditional folder I am less concerned about ultimate cutting performance and am more into having a knife that just looks right to me. And to me that means a flat grind.
 
KY,

Your questions cover about the whole gambet of change in the 300 series.
Basically look at it this way, early on Buck contracted 300 slipjoint construction. Contractors used industry standards of the time which was brass liners and flat blade grinds, during the eighties Buck decided to do it themselves, they used the old format with a couple of modifications to get started but then came up with a whole new way to make them in the 90's which kept going and going. Some changes have occurred to those also such as grinding changes, finishing changes and scale material change

Flatground blades were the norm till the 90's when the bevel edge design became popular over most of industry. Same thing happened with brass liners, they were around in 300s till Buck went to all stainless construction. Notice also they went from 2 springs to three. One for each blade, saves dealing with the offsetting of the secondary blades. (krinking - mainly a hand operation)

Notice now that all 300 versions are all stainless. In the sawcut version the famous knife,bolt and hammer escutcheon plate is actually a solid hunk of metal that is intergal to the liner. Goes up thru a hole in the 'thermoplastic' sawcut scale. Same with the Blue Anvil shield and Dymondwood.

Changes get made sometimes to make a better knife and sometimes to ease manufactoring costs and methods without changing the precieved quality of the knife. But that could be marketing opinion.

Brass is expensive, soft and tarnishes, stainless is cheaper,harder and well, stainless.

No BS now. The Buck slipjoints made today will outlast, outwear and sharpened correctly, likely outcut the Bucks of the past. We all have a tendency to favor what we grew up with and what the people who were important in our lives favored. I still like to polish brass, I still like jigged bone. I guess someday I will be saying the same thing about nicklesilver and Delrin.

300Bucks (Sorry KY I may have rambled here, tell if I confused you)

PS: Knarfeng explained the grind per-xactly..
 
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I have a newer buck stockman, I like it but I was rather upset when I found out that it was made in China, not that I'm like some people not to be mean but when they will absolutly not but a china made knife I'm not like that, I just like the fact that buck knives usually make the knives in USA.
 
I have two Stockman 301's purchased in 1972. I bought one for every-day use and liked it so much I wanted a "backup" in case I lost the first. (I still do that with knives, btw.) the backup has never been used, but I do occasionally oil it.

My question is, what kind of steel are the blades?
 
zach2556 said:
I have a newer buck stockman, I like it but I was rather upset when I found out that it was made in China, not that I'm like some people not to be mean but when they will absolutly not but a china made knife I'm not like that, I just like the fact that buck knives usually make the knives in USA.
Click to expand...

Zach, Buck currently has both a USA and China manufactured stockman, so take you pick!!
 
Tin Sue said:
72's vintage should be 440C.
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I don't think so. The first 300 series knives were made by Schrade for Buck. A bit later they were made by Camillus. and were until Buck brought the mfg in-house.

Neither Schrade nor Camillus used 440C for their regular lines. It is unlikely that they bought special steel and used the different heat treat that they would have had to use on 440C. It is more likely that they used 440A as they did in their own premium lines.
 
300 Bucks I m glade to hear the quality of the new ones equal or surpas the older ones. As I said the onlt newer one I have is the Bob Timberlake 303 desert Ironwood that was made for Bass Pro ( I believe). It seemed lighter than the older ones and I wasnt sure if it was actually a decent knife to carry of just for looks.
 
OK,

I am going out on limb here. This is a unqualified guess on some early info. Please PROVE me wrong with data.

300 Steel

1966 thru 1985 - as knarfeng says most likely 440A, which is what Cami/Schrade was using for most of their production. (I think I am the one who told Tin, incorrectly, it was 440C.)

1985ish thru 1994ish - 425m BUT only in the 301,303,309 and305 as Buck took over there own production. Also new introductions 310,312 and314 in the pre 94. All others were still made by cami as models were phased out, again most likely 440A.

1994 -now 420HC for all Buck USA production. Any others still coming out of a few special Camillus contracts stll 440A.
No opinion on China

Now in all honesty this timeline is for discussion more than a statement to be carved into stone. In one of the older threads, Joe talks about Chuck wondering out loud what blade composition they were really getting from Camillus. So in reality it may never be solved with Camillus kaput. The 300 series has a colorful past to make messing with them always interesting. 300Bucks
 
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knarfeng said:
I don't think so. The first 300 series knives were made by Schrade for Buck. A bit later they were made by Camillus. and were until Buck brought the mfg in-house.

Neither Schrade nor Camillus used 440C for their regular lines. It is unlikely that they bought special steel and used the different heat treat that they would have had to use on 440C. It is more likely that they used 440A as they did in their own premium lines.
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Yes indeed you are correct, and I knew that, but had a momentary brain lapse late at night!! :foot:
 
Thanks. Every once in awhile my intrest in the 300 series gets resparked. As a kid I carried a 309 for years until someone stole it out of my clothes during gym class. (oh the good old days when you could still carry a knife to school). I also carried a 301 that was my deceased stepdads from mid-80s until 1994 when I got a 703 for B-day. (still have that 301) That 703 replaced the 301 for most things except for outtings. The 703 I carried from 1994 until 2004 when my other step dad that was like a dad passed away. He bought it for me so I didnt want anything to happen to it. So I carried a old Schrade I got when I was a kid. In 2005 I started to carry a Case ( just wanted to see what the fuss was about). I pulled out the 703 several months back and started carrying it a little. Last fall I bought a older 301 and 303 off ebay. The 303 kind of rekindled a love passion for the Bucks. So my wife found a deal on the timberlake 303 for $38. When I got it I was afraid to carry it so it went into display. So needless to say the Buck pocketknife has a soft spot in my heart. I carry a stag AG 110 everyday for a few years now I'm saying all this just to say..... I want to buy a new pocketknife. Dont need one but WANT one. So thats why I was asking if the new was as good as the old. Thanks for all the info and more is welcomed.
 
I love my Buck Canoe. I am thinking the imports have a similar steel to the domestic Bucks, as it takes a keener edge and keeps it longer then both Case Tru-sharp and CV. I also have and love the red wood Bass Pro Shop version of the Buck imported Cadet, the 373 Trio. I love that thing. My only problem with the Buck Cadet/Trio is that they are a tad bit too thick for pocket carry as far as my pockets are concerned. I don't like the feel of something in my pockets. The Canoe, while a larger and heftier knife then the Trio, is slimmer and rides more comfortably. The large main blade takes a super keen edge, and the pen blade is extremely useful. I am not a fanatical patriot like others, but I usually stick to American made knives, more from an economical standpoint, you know? If I am going to contribute my money to a country, might as well be mine. However, the imported Buck line is an awesome knife for a great price.
 
Sorry, I just cant get myself to buy an imported Buck. I wont get into my reasoning. I do own other foriegn knives from Germany and even a Japanese made Fallkniven. But even with those I dont have the sense of pride as when I hold in my hands an American made knife.
 
Different strokes for different folks I guess, kyhunt. Funny how this train of thought doesn't apply to the computer your using, or the TV you watch, or the dishes and silverware you use. I used to think this way, by American made knives because I'm an American, but to try to only buy American knies to try to fix our economic problem, or to try to show our patriotism is like changing the dixie cups in a brothel in an attempt to clean it up. EVERYTHING we use is imported, you know? But, like I said, if that's what you like, go for it. That's the beauty of pocketknives. There's something for everyone.
 
LOL. No need to over react, kyhunt. I realized I was kind've coming off a bit standoffish in my post, which is why I lightened it up at the end. I wasn't being instigative, it's just a realization I came to a while back. EVERYTHING in my house is Chinese, and it really sucks, but it's what it is, you know? I'm looking under my mouse and it says made in china. My Smith's knife sharpening system that is sitting on my table is made in China. I remember (well, I don't remember,a s I wasn't alive back then) but there was a time when things from Germany were shunned. We had just fought a war against them, and they were still the enemy. However, German Pocketknives were and still are among the very best in the world. Granted, there ARE a lot of imported crap that passes for a pocketknife, but the Bucks? Even though it is assembled over seas, it is still an American company, and the knives are every bit as well made, if not MORE so then the domestic ones. Plus I'm poor, and these cost less.
But no need to over react. We are all friends here and we all love Bucks.
 
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