On Cliff's banning

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How about pouring an obsessive amount of your waking moments making knives with the intent of solving problems for your customers? Would you like to sink years of blood, sweat, and effort into a product and hear someone call you a liar, cheat, and a fraud because you grind knives a certain way or choose a particular steel, lock, or heat-treatment? Do you understand the emotional impact one feels from being called a liar for the sole crime of having a different opinion and experience? There is a big difference between wishing and asking/begging/pleading for a knifemaker to make knives more in line with your opinion of how a certain type of knife should be to please you (or me; I like knives, too!) and calling them dishonest or incompetent for not running their business the way an outside party with no financial obligation to employees and lenders might want things done.
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Here, here, well said. :thumbup: Should be read by all critics.
 
Folks, he's gone, get over it. If Cliff is the only reason that you take part on Bladeforums, then I guess we won't be seeing you any more. If Cliff isn't the only reason you are a member here, then get back to enjoying Bladeforums.
 
After I had renewed a childhood passion for knives Cliff Stamp's posts helped me to gain a new perspective on knife performance. Cliff’s website on knives is well known in German knife forums. Partly due to Cliff, today I favor scientific explanations of the interconnections between steel, heat treatment and edge geometry over anecdotic evidence - although I like a good review as much as anybody else (lots of pictures please). I find Cliff’s knowledge impressive and also his numerous efforts to relate to the research of others in order to gain new insights. Being able to read the findings of Roman Landes in German I admired for instance how quickly Cliff picked up the main results, compared them with his own research as well as those of others like Verhoeven and Johnston and freely shared his knowledge with everyone interested. You don’t find this kind of intellectual passion too often in the knife community.

Unfortunately many here on BF took a strong dislike to the rather blunt way this passion manifested itself. I admit that Cliff could have been more polite sometimes. Winning an argument isn’t always the most important thing. Stepping aside from threads when it has become clear that positions will not change even if confronted with well established facts perhaps would have been better than to continue an old crusade. That being said, I would like do add that in almost every thread in which Cliff participated he was subjected to personal abuse by posters who had nothing else to contribute. Cliff never responded in kind but just ignored the hostile comments.

I know very well that nothing that can be said in favor of Cliff Stamp will change the mind of those who think little of him. Even if possible, this would not be my intention because the way others feel clearly is not my business. Also I’m entitled to my emotions so don’t bother telling me to get over it. This kind of advice is unnecessary anyway since I have already ‚gotten over it’. Things going on in internet forums seldom affect my life. Yet since I don’t consider kicking people when they are down an entertainment and the majority of comments on Cliff’s banning appear to fall in this category I just wanted to voice a minority opinion – futile as this might be.

- Mike
 
quinque voces said:
After I had renewed a childhood passion for knives Cliff Stamp's posts helped me to gain a new perspective on knife performance. Cliff’s website on knives is well known in German knife forums. Partly due to Cliff, today I favor scientific explanations of the interconnections between steel, heat treatment and edge geometry over anecdotic evidence - although I like a good review as much as anybody else (lots of pictures please). I find Cliff’s knowledge impressive and also his numerous efforts to relate to the research of others in order to gain new insights. Being able to read the findings of Roman Landes in German I admired for instance how quickly Cliff picked up the main results, compared them with his own research as well as those of others like Verhoeven and Johnston and freely shared his knowledge with everyone interested. You don’t find this kind of intellectual passion too often in the knife community.

Unfortunately many here on BF took a strong dislike to the rather blunt way this passion manifested itself. I admit that Cliff could have been more polite sometimes. Winning an argument isn’t always the most important thing. Stepping aside from threads when it has become clear that positions will not change even if confronted with well established facts perhaps would have been better than to continue an old crusade. That being said, I would like do add that in almost every thread in which Cliff participated he was subjected to personal abuse by posters who had nothing else to contribute. Cliff never responded in kind but just ignored the hostile comments.

I know very well that nothing that can be said in favor of Cliff Stamp will change the mind of those who think little of him. Even if possible, this would not be my intention because the way others feel clearly is not my business. Also I’m entitled to my emotions so don’t bother telling me to get over it. This kind of advice is unnecessary anyway since I have already ‚gotten over it’. Things going on in internet forums seldom affect my life. Yet since I don’t consider kicking people when they are down an entertainment and the majority of comments on Cliff’s banning appear to fall in this category I just wanted to voice a minority opinion – futile as this might be.

- Mike
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eloquent and well thought..but Cliff should have followed the Golden Rule..He didnt now he is banned..thats the long and the short of it..its over people move on...
 
"Cliff was mean !"
Oh shute Ren,You are a pisser,LMAO!!
IMHO,I liked Cliff Stump better
 
Okay quinque voces, I won't tell you to get over it, but I will say again that it is done. People can continue to post support for Cliff all they want, it isn't going to get him reinstated.

Maybe Cliff will start a blog for all those that want to continue to read what it is that he has to say. Those that think so highly of him should contact him and ask where he is going to hang out from now on. One thing is for sure, it isn't going to be here.
 
WHAT PART OF "NO CLIFF'S NOT COMING BACK" DONT YOU CLIFF LOVERS GET????? HE'S GONE. MORE PEOPLE ARE GLAD THAT HE'S GONE THAN NOT. WHY WASTE TIME COMPLAINING ABOUT SOMEONE BEING BANNED WHO HURT THIS FORUM. ARE YOU THAT BRAINWASHED BY HIM? IF HE MEANS THAT MUCH TO YOU, GO START YOUR OWN FORUM AND YOU CAN HAVE ALL THE CLIFF YOU WANT. I'M JUST GLAD TO READ A THREAD NOW WITHOUT SEEING HIS NAME IN IT ANYMORE. Cliff Stamp is offline Banned:thumbup:
 
I thought when I stopped posting two days ago, this thread would die a natural death notwithstanding Cougar's reluctance to just lock the damn thing. Seems for every "Cliff supporter" that justing asking a basic question about the disproprionate nature of the banning to the offense, there are two or more Cliff opponents telling us, inappropriately, to get over it or move on, often in CAPs. Ok, I'm over it (I was never "in it" actually). Please, let's turn off the CAPs and just let it die. I promise you, just asking a civil question in a civil tone doesn't mean somekind of emotional sense of loss.

:rolleyes:

Verb
 
I'm a supporter of Cliff's thirst for knowledge and passion for knives. AV, why don't you go read my reply to vvk instead of writing about supporters and detractors?
 
Whatever else he's done or said, Cliff is largely responsible for having rekindled and re-energized my passion for cutlery. For that, he has earned my gratitude.
 
markksr said:
Yet YOU can't seem to "move on".
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There was never an event for me to move on from. I was just making an observation. You seem intent on continuing this fiction that anyone who did not like Cliff's banning has an event to move on from. It just isn't so.
 
If Cliff is allowed back to BFC, then Alec Baldwin and Sean Penn have threatened to move to Canada. :D
 
markksr said:
Oh, sorry, must be MY mistake then...:rolleyes:
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The problem is the postings in the intervening period between my second and third post aren't included in your ramblings. Moving on has had some baggage attached which isn't accurate or useful. Anyway, if you want to move on Mark, please proceed.

Verb
 
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