On Locking Bars

Boats

Boats

Joined
Aug 7, 2003
Messages
3,330
Looks like I am going to finally be testing my Spyderco warranty.

Long story short, I fish for the sport and the meat, not for taking tiresome photographs on the dock for the wall of some captain's harbor shack, so I was opening a salmon up on a charter's fantail last weekend when my Pacific Salt unexpectedly gave up and folded when I had to back up the knife after getting a little hung up. I was wearing "knife" gloves in anticipation of next going to the filet knife, so I didn't get hurt, but I was a little disconcerted.

I put the filets on ice so they could be seared that evening, and I had the rest of the charter trip to relax and to clean up and examine my Salt. I can now close the Salt with moderate hand pressure with no side flexing on the handle. I take that to be abnormal, so I am sending it in.

What this issue raised in my mind is what are the locking bars made of?

Everyone knows, or should know, what their blade is made of.

Assuming the blade is properly heat treated, or in the case of the Salt, properly precipitation hardened, through and through, it seems clear to me anyway that the blade stands a good chance of being "harder" or more "wear resistant" than is the locking bar IF the bar is made of less spectacular steel either materially or through a lesser standard of hardening.

So, Sal or someone, can you please shed some light on whether the locking bars are made of a different material than the blade steel? I suspect in the case of the PS that the bar is a 400 series stainless, but that is a guess. My working theory on the presumptive failure of my PS is that the "work hardened" H1 steel has worn out whatever the lock is made of.

Even if the bar in the PS is made of the same steel as the blade is, I'd appreciate knowing if that is the case.

Thank you in advance to anyone who can shed light on the material issue.
 
I think Sal mentioned that the locking bar is made from the same material as the blade.

Is it a lockback? Because my old native does the same thing. Sqeezing the handle causes the lock to disengage.
 
If the bar is made of H1, well then, so much for that theory.:D

Yes, it is a lockback, but this inability to take closing force to any great degree is a new problem.

I can hold the handle on the very end, well back of the entire locking mechanism, and the lock gives up with downward hand pressure too easily in my estimation. The lock never gave me any cause for concern before.
 
sherlockbonez said:
I think Sal mentioned that the locking bar is made from the same material as the blade.
Click to expand...

That is correct.

It's done that way because if the blade is harder, the lockbar will wear faster, or vice versa. By making them the same, wear is significantly reduced.
 
Most makers use the same steel as the blade steel for lock bars, they do however usually harden them differently than the blade. I've got some that the lock bars on customs that are every bit as hard as the blade if not identical Rockwell settings and I've got some that the lockbars are set at 45 Rc and 54Rc. I think it just depends on what they feel is best. Sal hardens his lockbars differently (not as hard as the blade)to a tougher hardness level than the blade hardness.

STR
 
Send it in to W&R, they should take care of you, and let us know what they say.

Mike
 
It's off to W&R already.

And now for a revision of the theory.

Both the blade and the locking bar are made of H1. Both are therefore made of precipitation hardening steel.

A possibility is that the likelihood of the parts being from the same batch of steel seems remote. No matter how slight, there might be a hardness difference between the two components that is still within the statistical variance of "acceptable." RC is usually a sampling within large batches of raw steel or finished parts, and a specification with a built in variance from the ideal is the usually chosen in mass production to conform to the reality that a little variance from the ideal hardness is not a deal breaker for using the part.

So it is possible that the two parts are not of the same exact hardness, in this case, the blade possibly being just a little harder than the bar. It will be interesting to see what, if any, diagnosis is made.
 
Boats said:
It's off to W&R already.

And now for a revision of the theory.

Both the blade and the locking bar are made of H1. Both are therefore made of precipitation hardening steel.

A possibility is that the likelihood of the parts being from the same batch of steel seems remote. No matter how slight, there might be a hardness difference between the two components that is still within the statistical variance of "acceptable." RC is usually a sampling within large batches of raw steel or finished parts, and a specification with a built in variance from the ideal is the usually chosen in mass production to conform to the reality that a little variance from the ideal hardness is not a deal breaker for using the part.

So it is possible that the two parts are not of the same exact hardness, in this case, the blade possibly being just a little harder than the bar. It will be interesting to see what, if any, diagnosis is made.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure, like STR said, that the lockbars are a different hardness than the blade a lot of the time, usually by design. I would guess it is a geometry/fit issue, or maybe the pins are a little loose, but I guess that is for W&R to decide. I had an Endura Wave that arrived with what I thought was excessive blade play, and within a week I had a new one with a note they would test the old one for reasearch, but no definitive answer as to what the issue was, so unless you specified you wanted a specific answer or call them I'm not sure you will find out. I am definately curious about the cause of the issue, too.


Mike
 
Hey Boats,
I'm sitting here playing with my Pacific Salt and it seems just fine. I use this as a beater work knife, gets slapped opened and closed quite a bit. Keep us posted on your w & r results.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if it was gunk in the lock recess in the blade that caused your problem. I can't tell you how many people have mailed knives to me that were lockbacks with supposedly a bad lock that once it arrived here I had to laugh about because it was simply pocket lint jammed down inside it preventing the lockbar from snapping all the way down.

Take a dental explorer or even a tooth pick and clean it out and then see if its the same.

STR
 
I'd like to see them when they come in. I've already alerted Charlynn to let me know, but any notes you could put with the knife would help.

Hard to say much without seeing the piece.

sal
 
You'll know my knife when you see it, as it is no safe queen Mr. Glesser.:D

I also happened to follow the directions that came with the knife and enclosed a letter that details the recent concerns and the earlier shearing of the clip. My Salt is also likely going to be the only one in W&R with Gorilla Glue holding the clip on for a left handed carry.:p
 
STR said:
I wouldn't be surprised if it was gunk in the lock recess in the blade that caused your problem. I can't tell you how many people have mailed knives to me that were lockbacks with supposedly a bad lock that once it arrived here I had to laugh about because it was simply pocket lint jammed down inside it preventing the lockbar from snapping all the way down.

Take a dental explorer or even a tooth pick and clean it out and then see if its the same.

STR
Click to expand...

That's a great suggestion, but it's too late, the knife was mailed at noon PST. Besides, it has a clip issue that no dental pick can repair in addition to a possible lock issue.

If this had happened to one of my Gen 4 Enduras I would have torn it apart and looked for myself, but I don't think anything has worked itself up there because. . . .A) It would smell given what I have been doing with it since fishing season..:barf: B) The blade still gives every visual and auditory appearance of locking up just fine, but can't seem to hold against as much force as it used to.

So it is one of four things. 1) My imagination being overactive since I can't readily disassemble the knife. 2) Something is trapped in the hook and it doesn't smell like rotting fish. 3) Something negative has happened to the locking bar. 4) Something has slipped out of spec for some reason.

There is a fifth possible reason that just dawned on me: Maybe I have gotten used to my VG-10 and ZDP-189 steel lined Enduras being harder use knives than the Salt, and the Salt is responding as it should and I can no longer recognize the performance difference is normal and not actually a deficiency on the part of the more lightly constructed Salt.

In that case, I'll be happily paying return shipping for having overreacted to nothing at all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top