? on the Cold Steel Chaos Push Dagger.. Update: Got one!

PocketKnifeJimmy

PocketKnifeJimmy

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Pictures online of this new edition to the Chaos series has me pretty baffled.
Thus far the Chaos series had shared the same cast aluminum knuckle guard handle.
On this one, their new Push Dagger Chaos, it uses the same style knuckle guard handle, but this handle is made out of synthetic materials.
I look at the pics they have up of them, and it baffles me as to how the blade is secured to it. Could it be that it has a very narrow tang that goes right through the center of the handle? There just does not seem to be too much material there for a tang to be put through that way, but can't quite figure out any other way in which that blade is attached to it.
If indeed it is that the blade's tang is that center line running right down the middle of that handguatd/handle, then how much of it's thickness is actually the over-molding of synthetic material?... I mean, it already seems thin to begin with, and if it's the over-molded tang that we are seeing here, then without that over-mold we likely have a VERY thin tang construction.
I would say the aluminum knuckle hand-guard of the other Chaos series implements would have made much more sense in order to give more structural integrity to that blade/guard connection.
Yes, if the handle were made of the aluminum, it would then have required some cast in or other form of texture to offer a secure grip hold in the palm, but the overall strength it would offer would likely be more reassuring.


 
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PocketKnifeJimmy said:
Pictures online of this new edition to the Chaos series has me pretty baffled.
Thus far the Chaos series had shared the same cast aluminum knuckle guard handle.
On this one, their new Push Dagger Chaos, it uses the same style knuckle guard handle, but this handle is made out of synthetic materials.
I look at the pics they have up of them, and it baffles me as to how the blade is secured to it. Could it be that it has a very narrow tang that goes right through the center of the handle? There just does not seem to be too much material there for a tang to be put through that way, but can't quite figure out any other way in which that blade is attached to it.
If indeed it is that the blade's tang is that center line running right down the middle of that handguatd/handle, then how much of it's thickness is actually the over-molding of synthetic material?... I mean, it already seems thin to begin with, and if it's the over-molded tang that we are seeing here, then without that over-mold we likely have a VERY thin tang construction.
I would say the aluminum knuckle hand-guard of the other Chaos series implements would have made much more sense in order to give more structural integrity to that blade/guard connection.
Yes, if the handle were made of the aluminum, it would them have required some cast in or other form of texture to offer a secure grip hold in the palm, but the overall strength it would offer would likely be more reassuring.


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Good question, hard to say without tearing one apart though, maybe someone will do it on YouTube.
 
Huh. I could take a guess and say maybe some sort of horizontal stick tang going into the knuckleguards, but I'm really not sure either. I have to agree with Nephron, I don't think I could say for sure without tearing one down to see for myself.

And frankly, I don't care to spend the money to do that. I'd rather purchase something I actually *want* from CS.
 
I would assume that the tang goes through the center of the handle. I'd be surprised if the tang goes around the circumference of the handle because that would require a larger piece of steel for the blade/tang to be cut from, and that would be more expensive to produce and waste steel from the internal cut-outs. But I'd also be impressed if it did go around the entire handle.

I have to assume that there is a tang because without one there would be nothing actually supporting the blade.

Maybe if there is a stick tang going through the center of the handle it is exposed on both sides to make it thicker, with the plastic handle over-mold only being present on the front and back.

I guess we'll have to wait for an answer to the mystery.
 
killgar said:
I would assume that the tang goes through the center of the handle. I'd be surprised if the tang goes around the circumference of the handle because that would require a larger piece of steel for the blade/tang to be cut from, and that would be more expensive to produce and waste steel from the internal cut-outs. But I'd also be impressed if it did go around the entire handle.

I have to assume that there is a tang because without one there would be nothing actually supporting the blade.

Maybe if there is a stick tang going through the center of the handle it is exposed on both sides to make it thicker, with the plastic handle over-mold only being present on the front and back.

I guess we'll have to wait for an answer to the mystery.
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Well, if the blade snaps off, you’ve got a decent knuckle duster.
 
Well, although it seems that the Chaos Push Dagger has not yet been received and released by Cold Steel, I decided to go ahead and place an order for one, (a backorder).


I have an idea for a new display, and I think the new Chaos will fit right in with my plans.
This Windlass Steelcrafts made in India reproduction of a British 'Robbins of Dudley' punch/push dagger, will be part of this upcoming display plan. I think it'll pair very well with the new Chaos.

Btw, these Robbins of Dudley repros are not perfectly done exact copies of the originals, but they are close enough in pattern to make for a good representation of them in one' collection. It seems solidly done in it's construction, but as so many other items made by Windlass Steelcrafts, they are a bit on the crude side, (in this particular case it's mostly in it's cast aluminum handle). It simply looks about 75% to 80% finished. Well, I took it upon myself to make a project out of refining it a bit more. Putting in about three hours of my elbow grease, (some sanding and a little polishing), it now looks pretty darned good! 😊
It's obviously a hand made item, which in that sense probably matches well with the Robbins of Dudley originals, which undoubtedly were hand made as well. As I have mentioned in the past, I tend to appreciate that sort of thing. The extra time and effort it took to get to it's final result, was worth it to me.
It's actual feel in hand is quite impressive... It has the best feeling of a controlled hold over any other punch/push dagger that I have ever personally held in my hand.
While being pointy, and likely a devastating defense tool as it is, it's two edges are not sharpened. In that respect, I am going to leave it be, (unsharpened). Being made by Windlass, the blade is made of carbon steel, (likely in the 1065 to 1095 range), so sharpening it should not be too big of a deal for anyone that buys one and has basic skills in sharpening knives.
When it comes down to it, it does have decent bones, (a decent foundation), but it is not something most folks will be happy with when they first receive it. I would say it's best for someone who understands that it will likely require some further effort, and that is willing, (and able), to perform that extra work upon it. In other words, it's best if looked at as a project needing some refinement 😊





Now I'm really looking forward to getting the Cold Steel Chaos Push Dagger, my being very curious about it.
I guess we shall see 😊
 
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My backorder for one of these new Chaos Push Daggers is on it's way to me from Knifecenter, (they now having them in stock).
Most of my curiosity about it's construction will soon be answered by the product itself. I say "most" because it will only be me going over it visually to get a better idea of how it's constructed.
I obviously don't have an x-ray machine, (nor am I going to hack it apart), to really know what all was involved in making it.
Still, I am looking forward to getting a better feel on how these new items are made.

I will likely come back to this thread to put up some pictures of it when it arrives.

I believe there have been six total models of Chaos series items offered by Cold Steel. These models are as follows...

*Chaos Trench Dagger
*Chaos Bowie
*Chaos Push Dagger
*Chaos Tanto (discontinued)
*Chaos Kukri (discontinued)
*Chaos Stiletto (discontinued)

Although the Chaos series is a relatively recent Cold Steel line, half of them are already on the discontinued list.
I have a feeling that GSM went ahead with offering this latest Chaos Push Dagger version because it was already in motion prior to them buying the Cold Steel company.
If this model becomes an offering that only survives through 2021, it would not only become one of the more rare models in the Chaos series, but also one of the more rare CS push daggers.
It's just another "we shall see" situation.

*Edit to mention that now I have two of these coming.
For those of you that use, or have used Knifecenter, you know that they offer reward points that can add up to be used on future purchases. So, when they got the backordered Chaos Push Daggers in to their inventory, they pretty much immediately packed my order and sent it out yesterday. That also meant them withdrawing it's cost from my bank account. The amount put me at enough earned Knifecenter points to get me a $50 gift card, which this morning I used towards placing another order for one of these Chaos Push Daggers, (after the $50 card, I only had to add another seven dollars and some change to make the purchase).
Anyhow, I am planning one of them to go into my collection, and the other I will hold onto as possible trading fodder, or as a future gift for one of my friends.
 
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I just noticed that Knifecenter has put up new pics of this product. Why they show it without the two steel striker knobs, I don't know. Anyhow, these must be actual pics of a specimen they just received for inventory, and so it shows the actual markings that will be found on the product sent out to customers.


 




The above picture has the following knives shown...

*Cold Steel Recon Tanto
(Taiwan)

*Kizlyar Korshun-P
(Russia)

*Cold Steel Safe Maker 1
(Taiwan)

*Cold Steel Chaos Push Dagger
(Taiwan)

*Gerber Ghoststrike Punch Knife
(USA)

*Kizlyar Krot (Mole)... The knife shown with it's point facing downward
(Russia)


Well, I received my first specimen of the Cold Steel Chaos Push Dagger.
I do have mixed opinions on it. In some ways it's pretty good, but in other ways it's a disappointment.

So, here goes my findings...

It's very large, for sure.
The quality of the blade's finish and grinds are good.
The sheath is of the expected type and quality, (typical Secure Ex).
The molded plastic handle is okay, (more about that in a bit).

It's two striker knobs come in a separate little bag within the box for one to install, or, to not install, (the option is there).
But... The striking knobs are not made of steel as with all the other Chaos series. They're made of a polymer, probably similar to what the handle and sheath are constructed of. So, they are not going to be ideal to strike glass or any other hard/solid material. Yes, they would still cause pain to soft human tissue, but the popular generic term "skull/bone crusher" would not be one to be used to describe these plastic striker knobs.
I would have hoped for a minimum of them being made of an aluminum, with steel being even better, but... plastic they are. It seems like a very poor decision by Cold Steel to have chosen this material for this component, but it is what it is... They are definitely PLASTIC!
I'd wager that these plastic knobs will be the biggest disappointment for folks ordering and receiving this item. It certainly is for me.

As for the installation of these knobs, they were easy to screw on, and a good finger tightening is all that is required. I definitely wouldn't use any sort of a tool to install them, (like a wrench or pliers), since it could mar them and could easily cause the threaded posts to get stripped, or even snap them. A snug finger tightening is definitely the ticket here, and they will unlikely come loose under any normal carrying conditions.
Although the striking knobs are completely made of plastic, the threading they screw into seem to be steel inserts. That's just another reason why I scratch my head as to why they cheapened the item by using the plastic striking knobs, truly smh.
I mean, yes, it saved them a little on the manufacturing of them, but... most folks would gladly pay an extra couple bucks to have had these come made in steel.

Okay, so as I stated before, and as one can see from the one picture above comparing it's size to other items, (including a CS Safe Maker 1), the CS Chaos Push Dagger is surely no small item! The specs of it online may be fully accurate, but when one compares it side by side with anything else considered a "Push Dagger", one then really gets a grasp of it's size! 😆

Since I don't have a strong magnet handy, I won't be able to estimate where the tang ends on this push dagger... I imagine it runs right down the middle as with the other CS push daggers. Still, that center support is not all that wide, so one has to wonder how wide the actual tang is under that polymer/kraton type material covering it?
Maybe someday we will see the internal make-up of it's construction, but for now remains a mystery to me.

Now, as to more about it's molded handle... I don't find it comfortable to hold in hand. Since it's grip is enclosed in a manner that mimics how most brass knuckles are made, it does not allow one to grip it with the supporting center bar being between the index and middle fingers, as more traditional push daggers allow as an option. Also, unlike the more rounded contouring on the grips of other kraton type handles of Cold Steel Push Daggers, this model's grip is more squarish in nature, adding to it just not feeling right in my hand.

In my opinion, these will likely not be big sellers beyond the initial interest in them. It's large impractical size, uncomfortable handle, and those plastic knobs that give it a real "mickey mouse" touch, will likely cause a quick demise of this model... I predict these will be discontinued after only a short time on the market.

All that said, if this item is purchased as just another unique addition to one's collection, (as is the case for me), it's okay for that 😊

My final thought...
Cold Steel should have stuck with the materials they used for their other Chaos Series items. They should have continued with the use of cast aluminum handles and steel striking knobs.
It would still have had some shortcomings, but the higher quality would have made it easier to overlook those shortcomings.
Hey, just say'in! 😉

I believe this overview of the CS Chaos Push Dagger may actually be the first being posted anywhere online. It's why I have tried to capture my impressions of it the best I can, so that others may have a glimpse of what one can expect if ordering one, or if trying to decide on ordering one.
Hope this helps! 👍😊👍
 
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Awesome score. Dude, I need the Drop Forged Survivalist and Bowie before they discontinue them too, lol.

The Chaos Bowie is awesome. Unapologetically big, beautiful blade.
 
I really like kraton handles, so the use of plastic for that is disappointing. A possible reason for using plastic is that manufacturing costs the past year have risen a great deal, just looking at the price of steel and other raw materials. Also very likely due to new ownership trying to maximize profits, chasing💲.
 
farmer ted said:
I really like kraton handles, so the use of plastic for that is disappointing. A possible reason for using plastic is that manufacturing costs the past year have risen a great deal, just looking at the price of steel and other raw materials. Also very likely due to new ownership trying to maximize profits, chasing💲.
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Actually, while the handle is in fact made of polymer, it uses two different types of polymers in it's construction, (the hard and softer types).
The softer Kraton type material is definitely used for the grip area.

Kraton, (and generic versions of it), are in fact polymers.

As for the new Cold Steel company and this new Push Dagger, I believe the model was already slated to be a new product for 2021 before GSM purchased Cold Steel. So, the handle being designed to be in polymer was almost certainly a decision on Lynn Thompson's watch. But... as for the plastic striker knobs, I don't know if that was in the original plans for the design, or if the new GSM owners decided that after their purchase of Cold Steel.

In any case, I feel it was a poor decision to make the striker knobs out of plastic. The little savings they may have garnered from that decision, is not worth the "cheapie" stigma it added to the final product.
 
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Gravelface said:
I just picked up a Drop Forge Push on sale for $30. Couldn’t resist ........
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Yeah, that's a great price on that model... I have one, it's a rock solid beast!



I do believe the initial sales of the Chaos Push Dagger will be good for Cold Steel. But, I also believe a lot of that will be because the people that have collected Cold Steel push dagger models over the years, or that have been collecting the Chaos series, will want to add this model into their collection too. But, once that initial run on them is over... That's when I'm guessing that their sales of them will drop off pretty quickly. I also don't expect to see this product receiving raving reviews from that initial batch of customers buying them, and that will only put the final nails in it's coffin. If my guessing on all of this becomes reality, it really shouldn't be of any surprise, since the Cold Steel Chaos series already has three models on the DoDo Bird list, being discontinued pretty soon after being put on the market. Their Trench Dagger and Bowie Knife seem to be the only two thus far in that series to have had a strong enough following to keep them going to this point.

I should have my second specimen of the Chaos Push Dagger, (and, yes, I know that CS calls it a Push Knife, but it's a Push Dagger), arriving to me on Tuesday.
I was thinking of a few possibilities for it. I may add it into my collection as a duplicate, which I do sometimes.
I may keep it as trading fodder. I may keep it on hand for a future gifting to one of my friends.
The last possibility was a thought to maybe hack it apart so I can see exactly how it's blade tang is on it. It's unlikely I will do that... My never before destroying a perfectly sound product to just squash a bit of my curiosity. So, while it's unlikely I go that last route, it was a thought that popped into my head.
In any case, if it arrives on Tuesday, it will be my second specimen of this model. I will certainly compare the two to see if there is consistently with them 😊
 
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I received my second Cold Steel Chaos Push Dagger yesterday. Having given it a good overall inspection, and comparing it to the first one I had received, the consistency is definitely there on these two specimens 👍👍

 
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I was thinking that some handy person with a lathe could make a set of "real" glass breaker knobs for these new Chaos Push Knives, (using either some carbon or stainless steel stock material). Actually, even brass would be fine, and would be a much softer metal to work with.
In any case, I sure do feel that it would add to the Chaos Push Knife's quality.
 
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