One From A Gore Soaked Childhood

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Mar 22, 2002
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Yeah. Sparrows. Ants. Crows. Toads. Snails....If this was a Rings Trilogy they would speak the name munk in hushed tones. Munk the Reaper. Mom told me of going to a boys back yard in the 1930's and all the song birds laying dead in the grass. "I never played with that boy again."

Terrible news for Mom; she gave birth to that boy.
When I was younger I could not understand the balance between sorrow and happiness. I could not understand why I would cry over a simple thing, yet torture my small enemies so carefully. We grew up in a War Age, of course, WWll movies, cartoons full of war and death, and the friendly neighborhood air-raid siren to remind us we could become nuclear toast. Those sirens went off rain or shine once a month 'for testing'.

I was set loose on pavement, asphalt everywhere, the arms race boosted Orange County Calif economically into the heart of the American Dream. I remember I was five and tried to walk out of there- get me land, I wanted to see free land.
But there was concrete and buildings, drive-ins and drive thrus. The Hippies were coming but that made no mind to me; I was still in childhood, the Beatles would have to wait a few more years before they got my full attention. My parents were atheists; there was no God. But if there was no God, why were these thoughts in my head? Why did the damaged kids come to me for help? What could I do for them? Back in those days there was still a little polio around- the braces were thrown into a corner with the coats at school. And it was nothing for a kid to have one eye staring at you, and another watching the desk next to you. Teeth weren't straight. Some kids were bald. What a collection of misfits before the cosmetic perfection of the children we see today.

There was a neighbor's cat that trusted me. It had taken many weeks of coaxing to get the cat to come close. She was my friend now. She was one of those coddled yet ignored creatures, a real Burb 'pet', with a combed show coat. I reached the inner cat- the friend inside. She'd hang on the fence and wait for me to come out of the house when I got home from school. We had our own cats, but this was special because I'm reached out for the friendship.

One day I took the cat and tossed her into the neighbor's pool. Howling, wet, angry and hurt feline. Off she went, and you can bet she was never my friend again. What had I learned? Not a lot. I never did that again, nor hurt any animal. (except a snake- does that count?) The more evolved animals were off my list anyway, and it was about this time I stopped once and for all harrassing or hurting anything.

The questions:
Was I bad?
If I felt your pain, and did you wrong, was I bad?
If I felt your pain, and witheld, was I good or bad?
Did I have to fix everyone I met? Who could fix all those people?
What of the ants and toads and the bodies in my mind; did anyone care? Did they 'count'?

I must have been born into terrible war, or with past war in my soul's lives. Childhood is a long ndn torture test, like the line of sticks and blows one might run to test 'courage'.
I've never seen any adult more cruel than the kids I knew in my childhood.
And we didn't change all that much. I waited years for an answer- for the savagery to release to something greater. I kept thinking; 'This year they'll all grow up and stop hurting one another." And the 7th grade passed, and the 9th, and we 'graduated' in the 12th, and many went on to college.
It never happened.

This is what childhood is: it is publishing stories and pictures of alleged Israeli cruelty to Palistinians which are patently false and despictable, yet looking the camera in the eye and burning a city down in rage because the Prophet Mohammed was ridiculed in a Danish paper.

Childhood is learning to be the first to put the big lie down, so all things flow freely from there. Sort of a high water mark of liars. If I say it first I win. If I'm bigger than you and beat you up I'm brave. If you are smaller and run, you are a coward. (and very sensible)

Anything goes, and there is no one counting the cost of the small land toads munk killed when he was a child.

I count them now. I live in Montana where I don't have to interact with the worst of what we've become, and I do what I can. I lose count when my brain gets tired. That's OK. I don't always say things right, nor treat my friends right, nor vote for the right politician. I'm pretty sure there are a few folks I should have helped more along the way.

It took me a long time to understand that if I could see the pain, then I had the heart, and God did not make a terrible mistake. And I could stop hurting people.

We do what we can and we just keep pluggin along.

munk
 
You said it. And you gotta stop being selfish- witholding forgiveness to one's self becomes an act of narcisism eventually. A self fulfulling hole.


munk
 
Munk....what you have said was essentially what I feel these days...

Maybe there's a difference in religion.

But I do seek refuge in a buddha's temple now,
 
At least you grew out of childhood, munk. And are a rational being.

Not so sure about those that burn up Italian cars and American flags over a cartoon in another country's newspaper.

It's uncertain if the human race will ever grow out of childhood and into rationality. Not in our lifetimes, apparently.



Ad Astra
 
You've got guts munk. I don't know more than a small handful of people who could deal so openly with misgivings involving their past conduct and current imperfection. But we've all got them and it's the folks who stuff them into denial that you really have to watch our for.
 
The people here- they have guts. We're in a steam ship. Maybe the Cantina is actually a bar inside a Space ship, I dunno. But it isn't stagnant. We don't stand still. We keep moving. We keep pluggin along.

munk
 
munk said:
You said it. And you gotta stop being selfish- witholding forgiveness to one's self becomes an act of narcisism eventually. A self fulfulling hole.


munk

Forgiveness is an essential step of personal growth. For me, that growth has been a 20 yr odyssey that continues daily. I tend not to realise how much I have changed and grown. It's sure to continue, One Day at A Time, should I choose daily the tools I have been given.

DaddyDett
 
You have that exactly right, good kids can be very cruel and even downright evil. YES, I do mean downright evil..... sure I have seen it and experienced it.... I was subjected to heavy abuse, usually from older children that took great delight in subjecting me to cruel and unusual punishment.

Punishing me became the delight of the moment! This was most likely because I was large for my age and probably slow to develop emotionally, though I had no clue of that issue at that time, I just knew I had to keep on going keep on - keeping on.... and I refused to cry or give up.

I was down right stubborn, but never mean and evil, although after a point, I was ready for just about anything I could envision, to stop their attacks. It never happened that I ever hurt anybody very bad, although a couple of times I was dangerously close to severe action. A very few times I hurt a few people, but later regretted my anger. I would come home with dirty pants from fighting and covered in mud stains. I tried to scrape it off my pants.... my Mom never understood my stubborness, she subjected me to ridicule and restriction..... HEY, I was busy tyrying to survive my childhood.

NaaaW, meaness was not my issue, but being a sad and hurt victim was my cross to bear..... WHAT DID I DO? I joined the US Marine Corps and went through bootcamp, infantry training, rifle training, and some additional special training and came out the other end pretty much the same as I had always been. I qualified and was approved for Officer Candidate School but later decided I would rather remain a Non-commisioned Officer. Stubborn again!

The only difference, after my 4 years in the USMC, is that now I know that I could usually stop those evil people if I needed to. That is a small thing when you have that ability and a huge thing when you don't! It is a frame of mind.... an attitude and an emotional booster of considerable magnitude!

I like friendly people and enjoy a good word, helping other people do well and getting someone on the path to where they really wanted to go. Yeah, I'm the nice guy at the gas station that gives those poor stranded people gasoline and a ride to their car, so they can get going on their way. They always offer to pay me back... send me the money, but none ever have!

I enjoy helping others and I still will stop some person that is cruel or vicious (if I can) and I still would rather enjoy good company than fight with somebody. YEAH, I was a victim for sure! Very stubborn, but still just a plain old ordinary victim. Kids can be cruel!
iBear
*************************************************
I've never seen any adult more cruel than the kids I knew in my childhood.
And we didn't change all that much. I waited years for an answer- for the savagery to release to something greater. I kept thinking; 'This year they'll all grow up and stop hurting one another." And the 7th grade passed, and the 9th, and we 'graduated' in the 12th, and many went on to college.
It never happened.

This is what childhood is: it is publishing stories and pictures of alleged Israeli cruelty to Palistinians which are patently false and despictable, yet looking the camera in the eye and burning a city down in rage because the Prophet Mohammed was ridiculed in a Danish paper. - munk
 
Ibear,
We'd have been friends. I beat many a bully until I met my match when I was in the 4th grade and a 6th grader broke my skull. Zackamier? They still make them like you? Pinned me down and wailed away. It's not like in the books. I spat blood for a year.

I figure Zackamier is dead by now, but maybe not. Maybe he's in elected office, or a policeman.



munk
 
munk said:
We've got guts.



munk
YEAH, that is true... we have guts!

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/698
SCROLL DOWN AND SEE THE PICTURES! NOT ALL THAT BAD... YA THINK??

It was some pictures (artists drawings) depicting various bearded dudes that may have been somebody named Mohammed.... or maybe not, that got up their ire and pisssed them off. HECK, how do they even know the pictures were of their former fearless leader? They assumed that the depiction must be of their beloved Prophet Mohammed.... and it probably was, but nobody could know that for sure! WELLLLLL ah, a couple say the name Mohammed, but who is counting? The irate muslims are counting - that is who is counting.

According to a poll taken this week among 1,047 people in Denmark 57% of the Danes support Jyllands-Posten’s decision to publish the cartoons, while 31% disagrees. Young people and men are more likely to support the decision. Almost two out of every three males and 61% of people aged between 18 and 25 years of age did so.

Meanwhile an international organization of Muslim intellectuals has threatened to mobilize “millions of Muslims all over the World” to boycott Danish and Norwegian products unless the Danish and Norwegian government condemn the publication of the cartoons, which is called an “attack on the Muslims of the World and on the Prophet.”

For four months the imams and their radical Muslim organizations have unsuccesfully demanded government censorship. However, despite immense pressure (also from international organizations such as the UN and the EU) the Danish government refused to call the newspaper to account.

Pakistanis Enraged by Cartoons Seek Revenge on Ronald McDonald and Colonel Sanders.

I’m hesitant to say anything more about the cartoon mess, but the new violence in Pakistan intrigues me. What’s unmistakable about these Pakistani riots is that they’re directed at a number of particularly American targets — McDonald’s, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Pizza Hut — in addition to other Western businesses.

Obviously none of these corporations had anything (NADA) even remotely to do with the publication of those Danish cartoons. (Though I suppose it’s possible that the International Jewish Conspiracy™ is behind both McDonald’s and Jyllands-Posten, sort of the way Gulf+Western used to own everything from cigars to Star Trek.) Every successful venture is somehow a Jewish Conspiracy, I suppose..... BUT, probably not!

So what do you all think of the pictures? Isn't this just more of the same here in the USA? We see this stuff all the time and nobody blinks very many times. Freedom of the press... right?

We have seen many religious issues depicted in various offending ways and yet we just don't go out and burn things down... or do we?

NaaaaaW, final word, we do not need censorship!

iBear
************************************************
This is what childhood is: it is publishing stories and pictures of alleged Israeli cruelty to Palistinians which are patently false and despictable, yet looking the camera in the eye and burning a city down in rage because the Prophet Mohammed was ridiculed in a Danish paper. - munk
 
bwray said:
You've got guts munk. I don't know more than a small handful of people who could deal so openly with misgivings involving their past conduct and current imperfection. But we've all got them and it's the folks who stuff them into denial that you really have to watch our for.
There ya go... making sense again I see!

Hmmmm, I could get used to guys like you!
HeeeHee!

iBear
 
Ad Astra said:
At least you grew out of childhood, munk. And are a rational being.

Not so sure about those that burn up Italian cars and American flags over a cartoon in another country's newspaper.

It's uncertain if the human race will ever grow out of childhood and into rationality. Not in our lifetimes, apparently.

Ad Astra
Yeah, kind of wondering about that myself.

Maybe we should fire them all and send them home!

Ya think?

We can't go and blow up everybody we disagree with.... can we?

Part of it must be ignorance. Lack of education has to play a role. On the other hand I have seen some very educated people make some pretty radical statements that make me wonder what planet they escaped from.

""When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans ..." The Constitution is a radical document... it is the job of the government to rein in people's rights." W.J. (President Bill) Clinton on MTV - 1992

They say that Ted Kazinsky was very intelligent and well educated. Certainly education is not always the determining factor.

iBear
 
Yeah, Ibear, Bwray's alright.

There's a lot of different points of view for sure in the forum- we've gun totin khuk bear'in liberals and conservatives here.

Check out Bri in Chicago's byline.

munk
 
Very nice sentiments guys.

What keeps my demons at bay (mostly) Are the frank & freely given
critical opinions of my 30 something children:rolleyes: (age group not headcount)
Along with their unconditional and often expressed love.

Nothing else really matters..
Munk himself is quick to reach out an understanding hand to those of us who have the occasional wobble:)
 
You're becoming an asset to the forum, BrentH. I've met Ibear in person. A sort of hulking 6 foot plus craggy kind of guy with a beard and gee...I can't remember if he had a lot of hair or not....must not be very important. In person. when you talk to Patrick, (Ibear) you know instantly he says what he means and means what he says. He likes playing with words, but there's no playing with him standing shoulder to shoulder should trouble come and the need arise. Right as Rain, as they used to say.

It amuses me sometimes to see our screen persona branching out from our 'real world' role. Ibear is not what I expected, and I laughed out loud happily when I met him.
He really is kind of a bear. An extremely sincere bear.

munk
 
I like this forum for it's authenticity. Better to risk making a few enemies by being authentic than to gain wide acceptance for being someone you're not. Declining to associate with people who disagree with you is a no stress, no conflict, no growth option. Differences can be accomodated when an atmosphere of mutual respect prevails. Great bunch of folks here.
 
If I felt your pain, and did you wrong, was I bad?
If I felt your pain, and witheld, was I good or bad?
Did I have to fix everyone I met? Who could fix all those people?
What of the ants and toads and the bodies in my mind; did anyone care? Did they 'count'

I too was that kid. Decimated the squirrel pop. and chicadees, robins, mourning doves, woodpeckers, if it flew or ran near me it died. I remember one day killing 27 chickadees under my grandmothers birdfeeder when she wasn't home---yeah, that one made me feel pretty lousy. Did some things to Toads that made me question my sanity--especially when I read as an adult that serial killers often torture animals as children:(

I have wondered too Munk if these lives "count". I hope so, and at times when I worry that the Christians might be right about the nature of god, I hope not. But I really don't believe in a judging, condeming God, or a hell etc. I think the biggest punishment and greatest gift that God gives us is wisdom, Love, self-awareness, and a conscience. With that we can try ourselves, find ourselves guilty, but have the Wisdom to love and forgive ourselves so that we can carry on and help others. I don't know if that's the way it works, but it helps me understand things...
 
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