One From A Gore Soaked Childhood

Oh, I think everything counts, without the lives of the critters being judged against us. It matters to me, is all I meant. If we don't make value judgments, then there is no difference between Axis and Allies.


munk
 
It matters to me, is all I meant
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Yep. I understand what you're saying. I had a rough and rocky morning and wasn't thinking too clearly when my fingers thought they were ready to start typing.
 
munk said:
Oh, I think everything counts, without the lives of the critters being judged against us. It matters to me, is all I meant. If we don't make value judgments, then there is no difference between Axis and Allies.


munk
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THESE TYPE OF RELIGIOUS DEPICTIONS DON'T HAPPEN MUCH IN THE MUSLIM WORLD, PRIMARILY BECAUSE THEY HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED FREEDOM OF VIEWPOINT, FREEDOM OF THE PRESS OR FREEDOM OF SPEECH! Ahhhh FREEDOM OF RELIGION.... HUH, WHAS THAT, anyway?

iBear

JAKARTA, Indonesia - Hundreds of Muslims protesting caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad tried to storm the U.S. Embassy on Sunday, smashing the windows of a guard post but failing to push through the gates. Several people were injured.

Pakistani security forces, meanwhile, sealed off the capital of Islamabad to block a planned mass demonstration and fired tear gas and gunshots to chase off protesters. In Turkey, tens of thousands gathered in Istanbul chanting slogans against Denmark, Israel and the United States.

Protests over the cartoons, which first appeared in a Danish newspaper in September and have been republished in other European publications and elsewhere, have swept across the Muslim world, growing into mass outlets for rage against the West in general, and Israel and the United States in particular.
 
MauiRob said:
Yep. I understand what you're saying. I had a rough and rocky morning and wasn't thinking too clearly when my fingers thought they were ready to start typing.
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THESE FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUES ARE BASIC FREEDOMS THAT ARE NOT FAMILIAR TO MANY OTHER PEOPLE AND ARE THEREFORE NOT APPRECIATED AT ALL. IN THE SAME MANNER THAT MANY OF US UNDERSTAND AND ENJOY THESE FREEDOMS, BECAUSE WE ARE FAMILIAR WITH THESE ISSUES AND UNDERSTAND THEIR RAMIFICATIONS AND THE CONTEXT TO WHICH THEY CAN BE APPLIED, WE ARE TOLERANT AND APPRECIATIVE OF THEIR VALUE!

MANY OTHER CULTURES WILL NOT UNDERSTAND SUCH FOREIGN IDEALS, AS FREEDOM OF SPEECH OR FREEDOM OF RELIGION. SOME OF THEM GRASP THE CONCEPT SUFFICIANTLY WELL THAT THEY PREPARE THEIR VISAS AND GET IN LONG LINES SO THAT THEY CAN COME TO NORTH AMERICA...... IN DROVES... But that is another story, I guess!

Jus thinkin out loud,

iBear
 
You're right, Ibear. It's my instinct lying is a cultural expectation in the middle east, and they assume we do the same. I'm not sure a young black man in Chicago doesn't feel the same way about American Culture.


munk
 
Munk, I just wrote a long reply to your post, then erased it because I didn't want ya'll to know how durn mean I was as a kid. :foot:

Thanks for your posts, and for being Munk.

Steve
 
Munk:

The torture and killing of small animals as a child is often the precursor of an adult serial killer.

I didn't hurt animals when I was a boy, nor did I know any others to do so.

My .02 worth.
 
I'm glad Maui Rob brought in the bit about mass murderers....it's true. It worried me a little too, though what the hay- add it to a long list of things I worry about...

But like everything in the DSM 4, it has to be weighed with other criteria.

You know, there's something to this subject- of the points of cruelty and kindness; ever notice an accomplished martial artist/boxer/roustabout/street fighter can be extremely kind, and never use force unless as an absolute, last last resort?


munk
 
Munk:

The torture and killing of small animals as a child is often the precursor of an adult serial killer.

I didn't hurt animals when I was a boy, nor did I know any others to do so.

My .02 worth>>>>>>> Steve Poll


Yes, I know Steve. I not only know, but married a child psychologist. I guess any mass murdering tendancies should have come out by now, being almost 50. I really wish I'd grown up in your neighborhood, but probably would have dragged you all down with me.
Life is amazing, Jesus and Buddha great teachers. I know fine men today who specialized in outrunning the cops in souped up cars when they were in their late teens. B And E boys who are sterling today.
Our world, and every dawn, show redemption. Who knows why we came out alive? We did. I could have been dead by gun, or drugs, or thugs several times over now, but am still blinking away the glare from this screen.

It's like counting the toads; I don't actually count, that's an analogy for caring, for giving a damn. We choose to participate. Men do evil sometimes because they can. I don't know when or why it is for each person, but there comes a time, hopfully with the relatively unimportant betrayals of childhood, where one simply does not wish to add to the total any longer.


munk
 
It's like counting the toads; I don't actually count, that's an analogy for caring, for giving a damn. We choose to participate. Men do evil sometimes because they can. I don't know when or why it is for each person, but there comes a time, hopfully with the relatively unimportant betrayals of childhood, where one simply does not wish to add to the total any longer.
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Very well said my friend.

It amazes me to no end the various number of backgrounds that can all wind up at the same place--the Cantina yes, but more specifically what Munk was talking about, the thugs and druggies of our pasts who become warm compassionate, loving, souls.

I know that my experiences being bullied have helped me understand people who are hurting, and my experiences as a bully later on myself have helped me understanding that group of hurting folks as well.

A quote that I read some time ago comes to mind but I need to give a short explanation: A novice monk was told to clean out the Zen garden. He raked a pile of leaves rocks twigs etc into a pile and began to load the lot of it into a trash bag. The abbot of the monastery came over and yelled at him "WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU"RE DOING?!" He then proceeded to show the novice that each leaf was saved as fire tinder, each large stone was used as landscape design elements, and the smallest stones and sand were placed under the rain spouts to prevent erosion. The abbot looked at the novice with his eyes moist and said "in people and in things there is no such thing as garbage"

I find that quote very relevant in this thread.
 
Hi Munk:

Funny, but we never know what lays ahead of us in life. As I mentioned I didn't hurt animals as a child. Who knew back then that I would end up in the detective business for 20 years and go through some nasty things. I left that field one day and eventually career changed to something mild. But events from those 20 years bother me, and when I'm not at work I try to just stay home and work on my knives. I've read that ex LEO's and ex military vets can have similar issues. I've been left with an agression thing as a result of way back then and never know when I'll blow up. So, best to simply avoid people. Maybe I'll go git me some toads.

Now I wonder what the he** the future will bring? If the past would leave me alone it might be bright. Nah, who am I kidding.

But, knife and sheath making is very rewarding. My next problem will be what to do with all the knives I make. Haven't been able to part with any of them yet!
 
Steve, For ten years, I intervened, administered medications, and often strapped down violent psychotics and offenders. I have my own aggression issues.


munk
 
Acknowledged. Wouldn't it be nice if the demons went away.

But, I silver soldered my first guard on a blade today and it was good. It was a Morseth blade from Brusletto. What a super blade.
 
Steve, I let them go a long time ago. I hope you do too. Like you, I found in simple things, chopping wood with a fine HI khuk, with my boys playing nearby under the trees, fashioning a revolver grip, and doing many other useful tasks, helps the spirit heal.



munk
 
Munk, you always manage to say what you say in such a way that it makes sense on a level much deeper than your average statement. You say it like the mind comprehends it. Wow. Amazing insight.

Chris
 
munk said:
Steve, I let them go a long time ago. I hope you do too. Like you, I found in simple things, chopping wood with a fine HI khuk, with my boys playing nearby under the trees, fashioning a revolver grip, and doing many other useful tasks, helps the spirit heal.


munk
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Very well said. Typically honest and thought provoking post Munk. I wish I _could_ let them go as you seem to have done. I can't keep track of all the things I have screwed up and done wrong and people I've hurt. But like you I do find some peace in simple tasks.

I was never the bully, always the bullied. I hated school. You are right that children are far more vicious than adults.

I hurt a beautiful dog that trusted me when I was about 11 or so. 40 years later it still bothers me. I have rescued several dogs from the pound and saved many other animals from abuse and cruelty since then, so maybe I have made some small good of it. But I tell you I would give just about anything to be able to go back in time and undo that one moment of thoughtless, unexplainable cruelty. I guess when you feel small and worthless you do small and worthless things to make yourself feel big and worthy. The irony is it only diminishes you more.

Maybe I'll have a chance in the next life to make that right once and for all. (?)

Meanwhile, as you say I'll keep trying.

Thanks Munk.

Norm
 
I find myself wondering about the cruel things I did to animals and other kids as a kid. I find it hard to forgive myself for those and hard to forgive the ones done to me. My early twenties are guilt inspiring too. I ran afowl of everything then. Can't believe I made it through. Guilt (raised Catholic) drips and hangs in stringy ropes from those memories. I have begun to look at them one at a time and DECIDE to forgive myself and also ask to be forgiven. Its not easy though.
 
NO SUCH THING AS GARBAGE.

That is profound indeed!

Great story!

iBear

********************************************
Very well said my friend.

It amazes me to no end the various number of backgrounds that can all wind up at the same place--the Cantina yes, but more specifically what Munk was talking about, the thugs and druggies of our pasts who become warm compassionate, loving, souls.

I know that my experiences being bullied have helped me understand people who are hurting, and my experiences as a bully later on myself have helped me understanding that group of hurting folks as well. - MauiRob
 
aproy1101 said:
I find myself wondering about the cruel things I did to animals and other kids as a kid. I find it hard to forgive myself for those and hard to forgive the ones done to me. My early twenties are guilt inspiring too. I ran afowl of everything then. Can't believe I made it through. Guilt (raised Catholic) drips and hangs in stringy ropes from those memories. I have begun to look at them one at a time and DECIDE to forgive myself and also ask to be forgiven. Its not easy though.
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You are right,,, it is hard to forgive yourself and also to accept forgiveness.
That concept of forgiveness will keep you sane.

It is hard to forgive and move on..... one thing harder though.

Living in the past is harder..... pure HELL!

iBear
 
Steve Poll said:
Hi Munk:

Funny, but we never know what lays ahead of us in life. As I mentioned I didn't hurt animals as a child. Who knew back then that I would end up in the detective business for 20 years and go through some nasty things. I left that field one day and eventually career changed to something mild. But events from those 20 years bother me, and when I'm not at work I try to just stay home and work on my knives. I've read that ex LEO's and ex military vets can have similar issues. I've been left with an agression thing as a result of way back then and never know when I'll blow up. So, best to simply avoid people. Maybe I'll go git me some toads.

Now I wonder what the he** the future will bring? If the past would leave me alone it might be bright. Nah, who am I kidding.

But, knife and sheath making is very rewarding. My next problem will be what to do with all the knives I make. Haven't been able to part with any of them yet!
Click to expand...
Knives are wonderful instruments of useful value, to be cherished, used and appreciated and then passed on. I do appreciate your ability to create new knives. That is a goal of mine someday. I think I will eventually do it.

You might consider that even though it is hard to forgive yourself and also to accept forgiveness, if you are inclined, it is harder by far to hang on to the old past and repeatedly swallow it daily.

That concept of forgiveness will keep you sane. It is hard to forgive and move on..... one thing harder though.

Living in the past is harder..... pure HELL!

That has been my lot in life, one of them anyway, (I have more than one - more than a few, I think)..... to force myself to move on and make all my yesterdays, one at a time, end in my mind, a done deal, so that I no longer dwell on being a screwed over victim!

You may have other issues to resolve, I understand very well. In any case, it is is good to realize that the past is gone and done.... for sure.... so don't live there anymore!

Jus thinkin,

iBear
 
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