One Hog, One Dog, One Rat.

LOL, Busse Axe. You must never have held a Paul's Hatchet :D

I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it. What if you needed something longer with a reach?
So what's the point in having two or all three in medium sizes? What can the Dumpster Mutt do that the HOGFSH can't? What can the Rat Mastiff do that the SHSHII can't do?

There's definitely no need to double up, but due to the lack of a viable choice of machete I went with the bigger axe option. Then give me a smaller medium blade (5" or so) and a small slicer companion, and I'm all set for a SAR scenario.

Now if the is some sort of combat thrown in there (zombies in the woods!), that changes everything.

Oh, and no... I haven't held a Paul's Hatchet, but I'd love to do a side-by-side use comparison of the two!
 
LOL, Busse Axe. You must never have held a Paul's Hatchet :D

I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it. What if you needed something longer with a reach?
So what's the point in having two or all three in medium sizes? What can the Dumpster Mutt do that the HOGFSH can't? What can the Rat Mastiff do that the SHSHII can't do?

detail work when your hands are exhausted from hiking up hills for 7 hours and then chopping wood for 20 minutes. It's not so much about what the knife can do, it's about what you can do with the knife given the length of work and the amount of effort needed by the hands to make it work. Hand endurance is very important in search and rescue if its deep woods, moreso then during general hiking because building a basic temporary shelter for the victim while helicopters fly in, or a rig to help lift the person out can mean life or death. Your hands need to work when you need them to work, you can't prematurely exhaust your grip strength.

Search and rescue depends on where your at, if your in a desert vs. american evergreen forest vs. south american jungle. assuming your in the american evergreen forest (washington), the ruck kensai technically works like a machete, but clearing paths isn't like clearing paths in a jungle, the material tends to be much more woody and less likely to fall with standard machete cuts from a thick blade, it's too springy. Your more likely to need something to chop branches with, in that case the ruck kensai is very heavy for long term use.

There have only been 4 axes from the busse kin, the pauls hatchet, megalodon and the 3 straight handled axes from busse, and the crash rat from swamp rat.

-The pauls hatchet is nice but it is too small to get significant chopping power out of. You get more versatility for roughly similar weight out of something like the desert storm fighter.
-The megalodon suffers from to much full metal thickness all over the place. you do not want to hump a 6 pound axe up hills for 7 hours when you can get better chopping power with less effort and exhaustion from a 4 pound gransfors.
-The straight handled axes are a bad idea for long term use because they are very, very much one handed axes. You will exhaust your hand to the point of shaking and inability to grip anything within about 20 minutes under long hiking/shelter building conditions. It's a really cool axe, but if your hand endurance is important - I wouldn't go with a one handed axe.
-The crash rat suffers from the same thing that the megalodon does. It's edge is twice as thick as a comparable gransfors and so is it's weight.


Busse - CABJ (or CBJLE)
Scrap Yard - dog father
Swamp rat - Rat trap


When in reality I would bring a B11, CABJ and a leatherman charge. Lightest set giving the absolute fullest range of use.

A lot of people haven't mentioned the rat trap, as it is probably not on their minds being a folder. It is important as an option because it is the thinnest of the bunch, allowing you to do detail work with the least weight in your hand, and the least resistance from the stuff your cutting. and it's light light light. I chose dogfather/cabj/rat trap to get a chopper, thinnish stiff fixed blade and thin light (but long enough) folder because that covers your tasks the best without losing any versatility or weight penalty compared to the other options, and the reciprene c on the dogfather is great for shock reduction (which can wear down hand endurance faster).

Having to choose one from each company is hard :grumpy::p I would not want to ever give up the leatherman. It's just to versatile. If I had to give up every other knife I had, I'd keep that as my one knife.
 
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(if anyone wants me to take down one of these images, I'll gladly oblige. They were sourced from google image search)

The pauls hatchet, as seen here, didn't seem to have any more versatility, chopping power or cutting power to a comparably weighted knife like the dsf. I found myself wanting to choke all the way back into a 3 finger grip to try to get more chopping power:
DSC00195.jpg

The 3 straight handle axes from busse are like taking a gransfors axe and only holding onto the end of the pole with one hand. It forces you to use more energy then a comparable standard poled axe. really cool blade, but not ideal if you need endurance.
oe21.jpg

The Megalodon suffers from having to much metal all over the place for something your going to pack when you want to cut weight for long hauling and for endurance in use. It's just to heavy for what you get.
busse-AxeMegalodon-2008514.jpg

The crash rat is very much like a more utilitarian megalodon. It doesn't have the top edge, it's lighter, but it's got the same size format and idea. However, just like the megalodon it's too heavy if you need to cut weight and maintain hand/forearm endurance. If you were in the helicopter crew: absolutely. If your a ground stomper sending a few days in the woods, probably not.
CrashRatSide.jpg



The biggest issue is how much weight there is in the handle, and how you are able to use two hands when swinging. standard poled axes allow for a very intuitive swing that maximizes muscle energy to chopping power. It also allows a lot of the muscle input to be from the shoulders, rather then all of it coming from the arm, or all of it coming from the forearm (even worse).
012.JPG

These axes (the ones from busse) are also built like heavy demolition axes. Because they need to be able to take heavy impact from hard objects, they are much thicker then is idea wood working.
This:
018.JPG

vs. this (next to (I think) a sjtacle):
DSC04705.jpg




Of all of the axes I think the crash axe is the most versatile. However, it's still too heavy for spending days in the woods on the ground where endurance is important. The edge is too thick for wood working compared to other standard axe options, and the pole/handle isn't as conducive to shoulder based chopping swings. Something like the basic 11 has more versatility and much less weight.

You are holding a big plate of 1/4" metal:
DSC04695.jpg

DSC04692.jpg



Axes can do things that knives can't, and knives can do things that axes cant. Under less specific circumstances I would be more likely to say that the busse kin axe selection was a fun idea to try out, but not as much when it's a search and rescue mission.

and now, just because I like this image (and this axe, super hard true temper (my brand new nicholson file could baaaaaaaarely cut into it)):
P1080438.jpg
 
The busse axe is actually a very traditional design. See the scagel camp axe. Bark river made their version of it a year or two back. Yes, it is one-handed... But the design works well if the geometry is good.
 
The busse axe is actually a very traditional design. See the scagel camp axe. Bark river made their version of it a year or two back. Yes, it is one-handed... But the design works well if the geometry is good.

Even with really good geometry, is the design worth it over a comparable weighted knife like HOGFSH? What do you see as the benefits of that design (being one handed) over a standard pole axe?
 
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Even with really good geometry, is the design worth it over a comparable weighted knife like HOGFSH? What do you see as the benefits of that design (being one handed) over a standard pole axe?

I would think it would out chop a hogfsh, but without trying it for myself thats just theorycraft.

And i dont see any benefit over a standard pole axe, which is why i didnt purchase bark river's version. I prefer my GB SFA if i need an axe. But it does have a benefit in this thread since it doesn't have a real pole axe for competition in this question. :D
 
Basic 11
Scrapper 5
Swamp Warden

I think these blades would cover all my needs and they are all very lightweight considering the performance they give you. Of course, depending on the environment and situation, the needs of the SAR team can vary quite a bit.
 
I would think it would out chop a hogfsh, but without trying it for myself thats just theorycraft.

And i dont see any benefit over a standard pole axe, which is why i didnt purchase bark river's version. I prefer my GB SFA if i need an axe. But it does have a benefit in this thread since it doesn't have a real pole axe for competition in this question. :D

I would be curious to see what the weight and chopping ability was like comparing the straight handled axe to the TTKZ or KZII
 
Only one each under non-specific conditions, eh?

Hmmmm...

Busse B11 ASYM
Swamp Rat Taz Rat
ScrapYard Scrapper 5 LE/SE (INFI)

:)
 
For SAR missions its a slightly modified Heavy Heart:

FS2-Sheath-Contents.jpg


Also my Rat Trap & Leatherman Wave...

$.02,
8
 
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That's an interesting setup... is the pouch attached to the sheath, or just laying on it?

Yup; riveted right to it, so when you're kneeling the opening is up.
I've since modified it with a single fastex closure instead of the snaps.

8
 
B11
TT Regulator
Vex

000_0007.jpg

CIMG2124-1.jpg

Crappy Vex Pic
SYK0131.jpg



Added this one because it is so pretty!
gren.jpg
 
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