One Multitool, or one Rescue Knife and one MT? Skeletool CX, E55B, Charge, Funxion...

[Sir Joe]

Hello,

while searching for a nice knife with Carbine I have found some knives of 420HC and come of 8cr13mov, and then these two of 154cm.
I had actually initially found the C33, so that when I have found the Skeletool CX there was no doubt for me, the C33 was out of the equation. I do not care if the CX costs the double. It has got a nice 154CM blade which can be opened with one hand, plus lot of other things.
I suck at sharpening, so, a steel which keeps the edge longer is a must now.
But later I have seen that the Expanse is still for sale here (while the K500 is not).
So, now I am not sure anymore.
The e33 is out of the equation, if I have to buy something which is only knife, with no other tools, then it must have a bigger blade and a backlock.
The e33 is framelock, I am not fan of framelock. I feel unsure.
So, the e55 is blacklock, 154cm, longer blade (not so much longer, 1.3cm longer than the Skeletool.

How reliable are the other tools on the Skeletool?
What would be the advantage and disadvantage of each choice?

 

[gadgetgeek]

Personally I really like the skeletool, the pliers are not very large, but they do the job for what I need. and I like being able to have a few extra bits depending on whatever other gear I might be carrying.

the skeletool might be a bit easier to explain legally, but I'm not sure of the laws where you are, it may not make a difference.

For a lot of use, the E55 will have a much nicer handle than the skeletool, the skeletool is ok, but I would not want to be doing a lot of wood carving with it.

 

[Sir Joe]

I like them both very much.
I am really stuck in this moment, because I started looking for just a knife with carabiner, and then I thought "hmmm, the CX is nice, pliers can be useful", and then I thought "hmmm, although a knife is nice, one with cord cutter is better", and then "ok, most knives with cord cuter appear to be rescue knife with also a glass breaker. I do not see me ever use it, and the day I will ever need it I will have probably left it at home, but if I really have to buy a rescue knife, it better has a carbide glass breaker".
And lately, to complicate all, I thought "hmmm, actually, if I buy a multitool, I better buy something which has got all what I may need in some occasion".
So, in this moment I am looking for something (= one or more objects) which can give me:
1) a GOOD blade which retain the edge well and do not need sharpening too often (because I am extremely lazy for sharpening).
2) a cord cutter
3) a carbide glass breaker
4) pliers
5) bits
6) wood file and diamond coated file (otherwise it makes no sense a file to me)

If it is two tools (for example a mt and a knife) one of them must have carabiner. While if I can get it all from a mt, it may just lack carabiner, no problem.
Fact is, no mt has got carbide glass breaker, so, either I renounce to it, or I must buy two tools (a rescue knife + a mt).
Now, if I have a rescue knife, I do not need a mt with hook, so no Charge Alx or TTi. But, this means that the other remaining mt have just 420hc, which is not much appealing to me vs 154cm and s30v.
This means, I should buy a rescue knife with GOOD blade. And they are expensive.
Besides, either I buy a rescue knife with also a carabiner (I only know the Kershaw Funxion, but it only has a 8cr13mov blade) or the mt must have carabiner (I do not find any with a good blade apart for the Skeletool cx, but that has got no file).

Things are getting complicated

So...
What do you suggest?

 

[gadgetgeek]

I would avoid the glass breaker. In most cases, they are a cheap add-on to make a knife a "rescue" knife but are not very effective, or make the knife uncomfortable to carry. breaking a car window is not that hard, and is a pretty rare need. If you wanted a cutter and window breaker, then a res-q-me is far more effective for both needs, cheaper, and easier to carry.

 

[Sir Joe]

I see your point.
But, watch this.
Carbide Glass Breaker ARE effective.

Anyway you surely are right (or I hope so!), I am not supposed to have or assist to such a bad car accident were I need to free myself or somebody before the auto explodes or a train crashes it.
It probably is a waste of time from my side.
Something I kind of do pretty well lately.

Besides, I am already really a sort of Christmas Three or let's say Inspector Gadget, with lot of hanging things on my belt.
Probably it is not a super idea, having other two separate tools just for a carbide thing.
I should probably just buy the Charge.
I say Charge and no more Skeletool CX, because the Hook is something I would surely use (not for safety belts).

So, it is Charge ALX vs TTi.
I can buy them for same price.

Any thoughts about the notorious "s30v vs 154cm" in this specific case of a blade in a multitool, considering it will be my only real blade because I own no dedicated knife?
I would use a DMT Diafold to sharpen, not a wet stone, so it may be not so difficult as people say.
And what I will mostly cut is thick paper bags (you know, concrete etc. My opinel can cut ONE before losing the edge), plastic bags, cardboard, cords.
I am not sure if for that it is more important the razor edge or the working edge.

Cheers

 

[gadgetgeek]

I guess I should say that most knife window breakers are no more effective than a lot of other things you could use. The full size multitools give you the option to use the serrated blade for your rough work, and keep the other blade in really good shape. I don't think you'll notice much difference between the two steels as far as sharpening and use, they are both good.

I'm sure you will figure something out, and then you'll find something else, and change your mind. Multi-tools are the kind of thing that can accumulate if you are not careful!

 

[znapschatz]

Although I have have a Charge tti and have used it quite often over 7 years, I can't say the S30v blade stays sharp for much longer than the 420HC plain edged did on my original Super Tool. There is a certain amount of hype going on about blade steels, but in life, less difference among them in practical use. Keen edges can be extended quite some time by stropping on a belt or, as I often do, on a cardboard tube or rolled up slick magazine, but sooner or later, each is going to need resharpening. It is better to learn how to do it properly. Just get some instructions on how to proceed, and don't be concerned about conflicting techniques. There are many ways to get a good edge. Really, if a dummy like me can learn how to do it, anyone can.

 

[comis]

If you really want an effective glass/window breaker, how about Victorinox Rescue?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiNZnbSHnBk

In terms of cutting abrasive material or industrial use, I think a dedicated heavy duty box cutter knife maybe your best bet? No need for sharpening and quite cheap to replace, that's a reason why many repairmen/contractors use them for work.

 

[Nap]

I'm not sure why you're so hung up on the glass breaker. They're not commonly found on knives for the reasons already mentioned. If you're worried about being trapped in your car, there are plenty of dedicated tools for that (including a plain old spring-loaded center punch) that you can secure to your door or seat belt. If you fancy being the hero at the scene of a car accident, the Boker Vox Access Tool fits on your keys and has the same glass breaker you'd find on those few knives that have it. For cutting, the Boker Rescom is a very good, very compact belt/strap cutter with a combo hook and serrated blade, which you can also clip to your seat belt or anywhere on your person.

If you want an everyday all-in-one multi tool with rescue tools, the Swisstool RS is probably the best fit. If you've narrowed it down to the Charge TTi or ALX, and you really can get either for the same price, go with the TTi. The quality is better, the toolset is better (scissors and a dedicated get-stuff-done flat blade vs. an additional bit driver), and you're either getting a great deal on the TTi or avoiding getting seriously ripped off on an ALX.

 

[Sir Joe]

If you really want an effective glass/window breaker, how about Victorinox Rescue? I think a dedicated heavy duty box cutter knife maybe your best bet? No need for sharpening and quite cheap to replace, that's a reason why many repairmen/contractors use them for work.

I am a gardener. And I have already too many things hanging from my belt. I am trying to find tools which I can use for more than one purpose. A rescue knife I can use it for many things. A cutter, for less things. Besides, Cutters do not last long in my job, they get full of ground, get rust, get stuck.
I do not like Victorinox Rescue
Actually I do not like Victorinox at all, but this comes from my experience with they red tools which many years ago had no locking system and I have cut my fingers badly in many occasions with blades which were closing while using them. And, I do not like the look of their tools, and the usability (dirty wet hands or gloves, with those "heavy metal guitarist's fingernails" kind of opening system... No, thanks).
I am trying to see if they make something I can like, because I saw a video about how the pliers of Leatherman tools bend easily when you twist a nail (it is in German but you see the bending anyway), and another video about how the wood/metal file is much better on the Victorinox. And the file is the main reason why I think to buy a Charge instead of a Skeletool CX. Well, ok, I also like the idea of having a second, serrated blade, and a cord cutter.

There are many ways to get a good edge. Really, if a dummy like me can learn how to do it, anyone can.

You do not know me. How do you know I am not dummyer?
Ok, I know you are right. I can learn.
But, I know I am me. I have many tools and few time to sharpen and derust and clean and oil them all regularly, and I am lazy.
I read that a s30v requires time and patience with a water stone, and loses its razor edge even faster when sharpened with a diamond stone.
Maybe the so called working edge is enough for my needs. But being a newbie I have no idea of what can one easily or less easily cut with a razor vs a working edge.
I read confusing things and start slowly understanding some.
For example I read that a polished edge is better for push cuts (like through wood) while a more toothy edge is better for cutting ropes, cardboard...
So, supposedly a s30v should be better than the 154cm for my use, having larger carbides.
And a diamond stone is exactly what i need.
Can anybody confirm or should I post this on another section of the forum to the sharpening experts?

I guess I should say that most knife window breakers are no more effective than a lot of other things you could use.
I'm sure you will figure something out, and then you'll find something else, and change your mind. Multi-tools are the kind of thing that can accumulate if you are not careful!

What about the video posted in the previous post? Of the guy testing rescue tools and proving that a steel glass breaker is not effective? Well, at least that one. Maybe there are other rescue tools with a very hard steel, which would work.
I stick with carbide, though
You are right about the serrated. Reason why I prefer the Charge over the Skeletool. Although then I think "ok, but I can take a skeletool and a rescue with serrated or combo.
I cannot collect multitools, no money for that. I spend already too much in garden tools
This is why I try to understand what to buy, before buying it.
But well, the pliers of the skeletool SEEM to be more sturdy than those thin ones of the charge. And the video about the not so good file makes me think "hmmm, maybe I should just buy a skeletool which has got all what I need often, and a separated GOOD file for when I need one. I do not really go camping or need to reduce space and weight on the backpack.
Serrated, well, as said, the skeletool costs the half. I should have money left for a mid class rescue knife.
(I am thinking loud, you can contradict me if you have a better idea)

I'm not sure why you're so hung up on the glass breaker.
If you want an everyday all-in-one multi tool with rescue tools, the Swisstool RS is probably the best fit.

I also do not know. I just think, if I buy the skeletool I miss serrated and cord cutter. The two things I get on a rescue knife, although I would not use THEM for rescue purpose.
On the other hand, once I have to buy a rescue knife I prefer it with a glass breaker, because most of them have it, and I prefer it being carbide.
Besides, yes, i have the recurrent open eye dream of saving a beautiful girl from some danger, and conquer her hearth (by carving her chest with the multitool).
The RS is discontinued, no more on Victorinox website.
Pity, it seemed to have almost all what I need, apart for the file.
But as said, at work I have gloves and often a bit (or a lot) wet, so that the victorinox could be more difficult to use than the Leatherman...

Ok. So.
Let's see what we have reached till now.
1) the skeletool has got all what i use the most
2) if I buy the skeletool I can buy a decent (rescue or not) knife with serrated or combo blade, and decide if and when carrying which or both.
3) the victorinox are difficult to use with dirty wet gloves
4) the charge has got less sturdy pliers than the skeletool (not sure about that)
5) the file on the charge is not really effective
6) I do not really need the other tools on the charge (saw: I have the silky. Can opener: I never eat canned food. Wire stripper: I can do that with pliers and/or knife, the FEW times I will ever have to do it. Little Philips: handy, but only had to use one once at home, where I now have a set of them. Scissors: I have many. Hook: yeah, I will need to buy a rescue knife if I really want a hook. Buying a charge over a skeletool just for a hook, hmmm.)
7) for my use (mostly cord and cardboards/thick-paper-bag, plastic) a slightly toothy edge is better. This can be achieved better on a s30v than on a 154cm, and with a diamond than with a water stone. IF all this is true, it is to verify if a 154cm sharpened with diamond stone would not be the most balanced solution of toothy-enough edge + easy sharpening + toughness vs hardness.
8) the pliers on the skeletool are sturdier (bend less when twisting stuff) than the charge's.

This said: what can you comment, confirm, add, contradict of these 8 statements?

Thanks again!

 

[Nap]

What about the video posted in the previous post? Of the guy testing rescue tools and proving that a steel glass breaker is not effective? Well, at least that one. Maybe there are other rescue tools with a very hard steel, which would work.
I stick with carbide, though

As the comments on that video noted, he was doing it wrong. You don't hit the center; it bows and requires way too much work. And I don't remember what he was using, but I believe it was just a matter of being a crap tool.

You are right about the serrated. Reason why I prefer the Charge over the Skeletool. Although then I think "ok, but I can take a skeletool and a rescue with serrated or combo.

But well, the pliers of the skeletool SEEM to be more sturdy than those thin ones of the charge. And the video about the not so good file makes me think "hmmm, maybe I should just buy a skeletool which has got all what I need often, and a separated GOOD file for when I need one. I do not really go camping or need to reduce space and weight on the backpack.
Serrated, well, as said, the skeletool costs the half. I should have money left for a mid class rescue knife.
(I am thinking loud, you can contradict me if you have a better idea)

I also do not know. I just think, if I buy the skeletool I miss serrated and cord cutter. The two things I get on a rescue knife, although I would not use THEM for rescue purpose.

The Skeletool (which has a partially serrated blade, but more on that later) and the Skeletool CX (which has a plain edge of a slightly higher quality steel) are both fantastic EDC choices for people who don't need all the extra tools. In fact, the Skeletool CX has been my daily carry knife off and on for years, has the tools I use 90% of the time (dinged for the lack of scissors), and remains the knife/tool I would choose for EDC if I could only have one.

This said, the pliers are definitely not sturdier than the ones on Charge. If you have the chance to handle them side by side, the difference is immediately obvious—despite the shape, they're categorized as "mid-size" (along with the Juice) for a reason. It's a smaller, lighter-weight tool overall. The Skeletool CX is also the only multi-tool I've ever sent back to Leatherman for warranty repair when the pliers broke on me. (They just weren't up to the task I was putting them to, which my full-size tools do just fine.)

It's true that S30V yields a grittier "microserrated" edge when compared to 154CM, but that near-microscopic difference really doesn't translate to to better slicing power for this vs. that particular task. The difference is tiny compared to virtually every other aspect of the steel. For that matter, I'm of the camp that says if you need a serrated blade to cut rope, you need to learn to cut. Serrations are good for steels that can't hold an edge and/or blades that won't be sharpened, and I suppose they're safer when working close to skin (because they won't slice to the bone or anything if you slip), but a good, sharp edge is almost always better.

The RS is discontinued, no more on Victorinox website.

Pity, it seemed to have almost all what I need, apart for the file.
But as said, at work I have gloves and often a bit (or a lot) wet, so that the victorinox could be more difficult to use than the Leatherman...

I'm not sure if this is true (it may have been replaced by a similar Spirit), but it's certainly available and in stock at the two major online knife stores I checked. Doesn't sound like you really like it anyway, though, so let's move on.

Ok. So.
Let's see what we have reached till now.
1) the skeletool has got all what i use the most
2) if I buy the skeletool I can buy a decent (rescue or not) knife with serrated or combo blade, and decide if and when carrying which or both.
3) the victorinox are difficult to use with dirty wet gloves
4) the charge has got less sturdy pliers than the skeletool (not sure about that)
5) the file on the charge is not really effective
6) I do not really need the other tools on the charge (saw: I have the silky. Can opener: I never eat canned food. Wire stripper: I can do that with pliers and/or knife, the FEW times I will ever have to do it. Little Philips: handy, but only had to use one once at home, where I now have a set of them. Scissors: I have many. Hook: yeah, I will need to buy a rescue knife if I really want a hook. Buying a charge over a skeletool just for a hook, hmmm.)
7) for my use (mostly cord and cardboards/thick-paper-bag, plastic) a slightly toothy edge is better. This can be achieved better on a s30v than on a 154cm, and with a diamond than with a water stone. IF all this is true, it is to verify if a 154cm sharpened with diamond stone would not be the most balanced solution of toothy-enough edge + easy sharpening + toughness vs hardness.
8) the pliers on the skeletool are sturdier (bend less when twisting stuff) than the charge's.

This said: what can you comment, confirm, add, contradict of these 8 statements?

Thanks again!

1. Probably true.

2. I do think this is your best bet.

3. If you say so.

4. As I've now explained, it's very much the other way around.

5. It's always worked fine for me, but YMMV, so if you need a better file, get a better file. I don't think you're going to find it on a multi-tool, though.

6. Agreed, per #1.

7. Such a tiny difference that I think you're making way too much of. This is the kind of thing people argue about when discussing "supersteels" on high-end titanium folders, and even then it's a mostly academic argument. (Incidentally, the toothiness you get from a diamond stone is the result of grinding it against little bits of diamond—if you're going to start factoring in sharpening systems, you should probably read up a bit on sharpening.)

8. See #4 and my explanation above.

Hope that helps.

 

[Sir Joe]

Hi Nap,

thanks for the answer

So, I think it is pretty clear that even without gloves the blade on the Spirit is more difficult to take than on the Skeletool or Charge which can be take out with one finger.
So, having wet gloves full of mud, I do not see myself being able to use the spirit very well.

Anyway.
I am still trying to decide what to buy.
I am kind of liking a lot the Bucks/Top First responder, 154cm, cord cutter, glass breaker.
No carabiner, so, if I buy this one I must buy the Skeletool (I have one pocket free, and then one place for carabiner).

The Leatherman e55B is nice too. Also 154cm, carabiner.
It is also cheap enough to allow me to buy a bigger MT than the CX, one without carabiner (the e55 has got carabiner).

What can you guys tell of the SOG tools?
I like them all. But I see that most of them are made of 420. Hmmm.
Are at least the pliers better than the Charge?
The Powerduo is made of 9cr18mov, should be better than the 420.

Cheers

 

[average gimp]

Best glass breaker going is the Spyderco Assist. It's there when you need it and retracts when you don't. On top of that you get a whistle and the usual excellent quality Spyderco provides. It's even available in H-1 so that model is totally rust-free.

 

[Nap]

So, I think it is pretty clear that even without gloves the blade on the Spirit is more difficult to take than on the Skeletool or Charge which can be take out with one finger.
So, having wet gloves full of mud, I do not see myself being able to use the spirit very well.

Yes, good point, the knife would be extremely difficult with gloved hands.

I am kind of liking a lot the Bucks/Top First responder, 154cm, cord cutter, glass breaker.
No carabiner, so, if I buy this one I must buy the Skeletool (I have one pocket free, and then one place for carabiner).

The Leatherman e55B is nice too. Also 154cm, carabiner.
It is also cheap enough to allow me to buy a bigger MT than the CX, one without carabiner (the e55 has got carabiner).

Leatherman's knives are perfectly fine, just rather bulky—which I guess matters less if you're using the carabiner. The E55Bx has a partially serrated blade, but no glassbreaker. The Buck looks like a better option, being the rescue knife you're looking for.

What can you guys tell of the SOG tools?
I like them all. But I see that most of them are made of 420. Hmmm.
Are at least the pliers better than the Charge?
The Powerduo is made of 9cr18mov, should be better than the 420.

No experience with the Powerduo, but tool-wise it looks like a budget alternative to the Skeletool, so it may be worth considering. The Powerassist is a solid tool, despite its annoyances, but it's still not Leatherman quality. Have you actually handled a Charge? You keep talking about flimsiness, but I can't think of a sturdier pliers head short of the heavy-duty stuff like the MUT. If you're relying on pictures, I guess I can see the needlenose point being misleading, but blockier is not sturdier.

Just out of curiousity, why do you think 9Cr18MoV would be better than 420HC? Given its price point and provenance, my instinct would actually be the opposite, but maybe you know something I don't.

Otherwise, I think you have the best options worth considering, so good luck with your decision.

 

[Sir Joe]

Hi Average Gimp, I have seen that, I was attracted by the name Spiderco, but I just dislike the blade. The fact is, as I actually do not have a knife yet, this would be my only knife.
I want it to have a real blade, with drop point or so, which I can use for many things.

@Nap,

SOG writes 420, not 420HC.
The 9cr18mov should be equivalent to 440b at least according to what I have read on zknives (I try to document myself in order to avoid spamming this forum with questions), so better than normal 420. I read that 420HC is tougher than 440C, specially if well done like Buck does, so I suppose you were right there.

So, my many hours of researches seem to be a sort of Matrioska which has no end and only opens new doors.
I still think I will reach a nice solution soon. I see there is no perfect solution but I am confident I will be able to chose between a few differently valid alternatives.

Here my actual choices:

MT: Surge
Why? Complete, sturdy, big pliers, the blade exchanger is just genius, the awl can be handy.
Heavy, but if you see all what I carry on me every day, I do not think the 100grs more will make the difference
If anybody know of another MT which may beat this, you can speak, or write (I may not be able to hear you if you speak).

Knife: this is becoming a damn difficult choice. For many reasons I have finally decided to include also non rescue knives (I could not find many rescue which I liked).
I can only buy one good knife so I am trying to choose a good one. I mean, no cheap things. And I would like it to hold edge well because I am a lazy bastard for sharpening.
So I am still reading about steels now.
But this is not the right part of the forum

So, do you guys approve the choice of a Surge as main MT?
I could eventually contemplate the Idea of buying the OTH and a E55B to have the Bit Holder. But, I kind of frikking love the idea of the blade exchanger!

Cheers

 

[comis]

Hi Average Gimp, I have seen that, I was attracted by the name Spiderco, but I just dislike the blade. The fact is, as I actually do not have a knife yet, this would be my only knife.
I want it to have a real blade, with drop point or so, which I can use for many things.

@Nap,

SOG writes 420, not 420HC.
The 9cr18mov should be equivalent to 440b at least according to what I have read on zknives (I try to document myself in order to avoid spamming this forum with questions), so better than normal 420. I read that 420HC is tougher than 440C, specially if well done like Buck does, so I suppose you were right there.

So, my many hours of researches seem to be a sort of Matrioska which has no end and only opens new doors.
I still think I will reach a nice solution soon. I see there is no perfect solution but I am confident I will be able to chose between a few differently valid alternatives.

Here my actual choices:

MT: Surge
Why? Complete, sturdy, big pliers, the blade exchanger is just genius, the awl can be handy.
Heavy, but if you see all what I carry on me every day, I do not think the 100grs more will make the difference
If anybody know of another MT which may beet this, you can speak, or write (I may not be able to hear you if you speak).

Knife: this is becoming a damn difficult choice. For many reasons I have finally decided to include also non rescue knives (I could not find many rescue which I liked).
I can only buy one good knife so I am trying to choose a good one. I mean, no cheap things. And I would like it to hold edge well because I am a lazy bastard for sharpening.
So I am still reading about steels now.
But this is not the right part of the forum

So, do you guys approve the choice of a Surge as main MT?
I could eventually contemplate the Idea of buying the OTH and a E55B to have the Bit Holder. But, I kind of frikking love the idea of the blade exchanger!

Cheers

Surge is nice if the OHO function is important. You'd mentioned nail nicks are difficult to use when hands are dirty and wet, but the same situation will apply to any multitools that you will use. In fact, I would argue that Swisstool/Spirit has better rust proof ability and more precision, so it's much easy to open each individual tools than most of the tools from LM MTs. The only exception is the one-hand-opening tools on LMs, but again, their tools are not as rust proof as Vics, so it may or may not be optimal for your use. Don't bet on the saw is good because it is replaceable, I will be doing an extensive saw tests on all the popular models on market, and if you are really interested, please keep an eye out for my future posting.

If sawing is important for your work or your gardening, it will really benefit from having a Bacho Laplander or Silky Boy or even the Opinel No12 Saw--that's my experience after just finished testing pocketable MT saws for 2.5 hours.

For the knife, I am not too sure exactly what kind of use you do plan for it. But if you don't want to sharpen and want a sharp edge to cut abrasive items, I do recommend to check out industrial box cutters. There is a real reason why most tradesman uses this kind of cutting tool, instead of a high-end super-steel knife to cut. The cost to buy/maintain is so low, and you can literally cut hundreds of yards of boxes with the minimum effort/cost.

Any super steel will dull given enough use, and you will be stuck with a dull knife for a long long time or spending a lot of time sharpening if you are not good at it.

 

[Sir Joe]

Hi Comis,

I actually have a Silky Pocket Boy 13, black (medium teeth).
I was not talking of the saw coming with the Surge. I am aware that the Vic's is better.
What I meant is that with the Blade Exchanger of the Surge I can use ANY kind of Jigsaw blade. For metal, or fine teethed for wood (which are good for bamboos, better than my mid teethed Silky).

Yes I have read that LM can rust more than a Vic would (if ever) do.
I do not work as fisher though, so, I think that a regular dose of wd40 should keep rust away. Specially on a black Surge.

I see your point with Box Cutters, I have actually used them already, when I worked in construction of gardens (I mean, not just plants, but really building, all).
They cut well in dry conditions, but are difficult if not impossible to maintain clean and operative when working in wet conditions, with mud/soil. The blades rust immediately, and the cutter itself is not very rust resistant. Thos of plastic are crap. Thos of metal rust in some parts.
Besides, till I cut paper bags, all ok. But for drainage plastic tubes and for those roll nets which goes under rolled lawn to prevent rodents, the Box Cutter has very limited utility.
I would only use a Box Cutter in my job now if I have to cut against a hard surface.

Anyway for the knife I am going to open another thread now, this is not the right place.
And I need more suggestions, to finish individuating the better steels for my needs, geometry, hardness...

Cheers

 

[Sir Joe]

Btw, would really the Black Oxide Coating on the Surge reduce even a little the risk of Rust?
Or would it be worse, or irrelevant?
And, do anybody knows if the Method used by LM for this coating is the hot or cold Method?
I read that the cold is more superficial, the hot more resistant. The hot is military grade, cold is not. LM write about military, in the description of Black Oxide. But people talk of black hands at first use.
Hmmm.
It does not change much, I would still buy black IF it can at least reduce a BIT the risk of rust.

 

[comis]

I think regular WD40 may be good to help remove rust, but definitely is bad for rust proofing. I remembered experimenting to use WD40 as lube for a regular stainless LM MT, and somehow forgotten about it. And next time I locate that tool(probably after a few months), it was rusted on the entire tool, yet the storage environment was very dry.

I don't know what kind of process do Leatherman take to make the BO, but you are right about possible black hands at use.

As reference, I think of those LM BO tools that I owned for years, they do seem to do a good job to prevent rust.

 

[Sir Joe]

You scare me!
I am abusing of WD40 on all my tools! Specially the Carbon Steel ones.

Well, if the oxide can at least reduce rust, I am on it.
What I have read about black hands is only at first use and can be prevented by washing it with soap first.

I have now to find a Surge with Nylon Sheat. In Germany most sellers sell all LM MT with Leder Sheat.
I hate it.

I hope I do not need to buy the Nylon Sheat separately.
But eventually I can sell the Leder in Ebay.

So. Decided. Surge!!!
For the Hook I found some interesting little solutions of Benchmade. I like one with carabiner, which also has got bottle opener. This will also compensate the fact that the LM have a mix of bottle and can opener, which people say it is aggressive on bottle and weak on cans.
I can reprofile it to make it more aggressive for cans and use the Benchmade for bottles.
If not, I leave all like it is and I buy a LM Z-Rex. It also has got carbide.