One persons view on the "secret" of a good Bushcraft knife

[SouthernCross]

G'day FNC

Maybe I can make a believer out of you.
In the USA, the Leave-no-trace camping movement started in the 60's more or less.
You could buy light weight gear that did every-thing.

Using tools, for more that a minute, was a thing of the past. Once I got my tent ropes and
auxiliary ropes cut and knotted, I really did not need a knife. SwissArmyKnives were
popular, and handy to tinker with, so I did that for fun. The callouses were on the feet,
not any on the hands. During this time I experimented with saws, axes, knives, guns;
but I did Not Need to.

I am really wondering about your frame of reference; since this kind of camping must
have become popular in your area also....

(Note: Bolded emphasis is added by myself)

My frame of reference is Australia.

The map below was sourced from the internet and claims to show a realitive comparison of the size of the US compared to Australia.

Please bear in mind that we somehow manage to cram in a population of a little over 20 million people, and about 60% of these live in the greater metropolitan area of 3 cities.

You are right. Track walking (ie walking along sign posted & cleared footpaths) has become popular over here as well. BTW by track walking , I assume you mean where people start at point A & finish at Point B :thumbup:

However this is not the sort of wilderness hiking & camping that I do.

My style of wilderness adventures involves a Topo map, compass & off trail walking into a location where the only tracks are left by animals (and no mobile phone reception either).

I also prefer to set up a camp for a week + and do a series of day walks (often hunting related) from the campsite.

Since the terrain is steep & heavily wooded (which probably explains why I haven't seen any signs of anyone else having been through my little piece of paradise), I don't really carry a lot of equipment with me.

But the equipment I carry with me does get used :thumbup:

As just one example, take a trip of a couple of years ago.

I had set up a tent fly as a tarp to protect my "lounge room" (really a couple of logs to keep my butt of the ground) from the then prevailing wind. A change of wind direction meant that a cold wind was now blowing inside the tarp.

My solution to the problem was to use the tools I took with me to build a wind break from bark & deadfall limbs at the end of the tarp :thumbup:

[youtube]YRe0kz3OIz8[/youtube]

Please bear in mind, that this is just one example of the use I put my tools to when in the Bush :thumbup:

So, considering my own personal location & style of hiking / camping, callouses and the regular use of edged tools is something that still has relevance for me.

As always, others milage may vary.



Kind regards
Mick

 

[SouthernCross]

G'day guys.

I rock climb regularly on both sandpapery indoor plastic holds, and a variety of outdoor stone, usually cheese-grater granite. My hands are basically one big callus.


I've owned knives with lousy handle ergonomics that give me hot spots and blisters.

You rock climb MM? Me too! Havent this year but hope to get out soon. My hands are full of callus's from that and sports yet a bad handle will still cause blisters no matter how tough your hands are a great handle is more than appreciated, its almost loved.

Ugh. Must have skimmed over that. Totally disagree. A few years ago I cleared a lot with a few different knives just for the sake of doing it with them. I was used to handling steel bars and sledgehammers, and did it without gloves a lot. I lifted weights with aggressively knurled Olympic bars, and used Captains of Crush grippers regularly. My hands were a series of calloused ridges.
Some knives were deemed unusable almost instantly, particularly a horn handled survival golok that put a ridge right under the side of my pinky.
How can you say "the secret to a great bushcraft knife is a handle that is comfortable in a variety of grips and in extended use", and claim hotspots don't matter

I must appologise for not being specific enough with the following statement.

...Now before anyone points out that I have neglected to mention hot spots, I counter this with one word ...... Callouses

I have a hard time believing that anyone who can lay claim to spending any amount of time in the wild has such soft hands that hot spots / blisters become a problem when using a knife :thumbdn: .....

Kind regards
Mick

Whilst all callouses are usefull, it is the ones that are developed in the specific activity (ie using a knfe / hatchet etc..) for extended periods of time that are the ones that will protect you from the hot spots that can be formed when using a knife/hatchet etc.

I have spent long enough in a variety of manual jobs to realise that the calouses and muscle resilience that is developed from a particular activity, doesn't necessarily translate into being especially usefull in a different activity :thumbup:

BTW, I hope you all feel free to show the extended use you have all put your edge tools to, that have caused the hot spots on calloused hands




Kind regards
Mick

 

[PB Wilson]

Please bear in mind that we somehow manage to cram in a population of a little over 20 million people, and about 60% of these live in the greater metropolitan area of 3 cities.

I had set up a tent fly as a tarp to protect my "lounge room" (really a couple of logs to keep my butt of the ground) from the then prevailing wind. A change of wind direction meant that a cold wind was now blowing inside the tarp.

My solution to the problem was to use the tools I took with me to build a wind break from bark & deadfall limbs at the end of the tarp :thumbup:

[youtube]YRe0kz3OIz8[/youtube]

Please bear in mind, that this is just one example of the use I put my tools to when in the Bush :thumbup:

Kind regards
Mick

Because there are so many more people in the US and the percentage of developed land to wilderness is quite a bit different than in Australia, the kind of work that you do would be frowned upon or is illegal.

There are many places that don't allow you to cut trees for fuel or shelter. You have to rely on what is already on the ground.

The whole "leave no trace" ethic is so that others can enjoy a more pristine wilderness experience. Since so few people will ever spend time in the wilderness where you go, your activities will probably go unnoticed. Not the same in the US at all.

Understand that I'm not making any judgements concerning your actions. I'd love to be able to use the land as I needed, but because so many people also use the same areas, it wouldn't be fair and the woods would be stripped bare in short order.

 

[Big Mike]

Mick, your photos showing the country side look amazingly like the terrian I hike in.

The whole "leave no trace" ethic is so that others can enjoy a more pristine wilderness experience. Since so few people will ever spend time in the wilderness where you go, your activities will probably go unnoticed.

Not the same in the US at all.

I don't know that I would go that far.


There is still lots of land here in the States that let's you have the type of experience Mick is talking about.

Even in crowded New England I know many areas where one can travel off trail and enjoy the beauty and solitude of areas not often visited by man.

Reasonable use of the resources in these type of area leaves little trace, and disappears over time.


The hard part for many is finding these island of sanity in an ever maddening world.


I understand that for many in America the major parks and trail systems are their main (or only) portal to the wilderness,

...but there is still plenty of wild land here if you know where to find it.




Big Mike

 

[fnc]

I knew the Australia part of POV for 2 posters.

The thing I wanted you to believe is: a fair number of people use modern
Leave-No-Trace equipment AND they go off trail. And they seldom need a
knife or other such tools.

I am not recommending LNT to you(s) or others. Use your own good judgment.
I have no problem with what you are doing; it looks good to me and I will follow
your youtube as my ancient comm line permits.

Lots of Americans go off trail with very little equipment and they spend all or part
of a night in the woods: big game hunters who shoot an animal in late afternoon.
They get closer to nature.

 

[canadiantrailman]

registered user

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

I agree that handles are the most important interface- hence one can see a multitude of handle modifications here and in indigenous photos that show how the handle has been adapted (or replaced) for the specific uses of the user.

However I must take exception to the callous comment. I have performed manual labor my whole life- farm kid, construction, oilfield warehouse, and accept and understand protective callous and muscles learning to work. I cannot currently afford to have callouses in my new field of work. I have just finished my University training in Massage Therapy. In this field callouses will keep you from getting jobs, finding clients, etc. As a result I have to ensure that I keep "girl's hands" as I call them. Your statement implies (and I doubt that is what you meant- at least I hope not) that anybody without callouses cannot be taken seriously in regards to bushcraft. This would be a terrible misrepresentation, as knowledge is not carried in callouses but in the minds of the practitioner.

I am not the best example of this as I have had limited time to bush bum in the last 3 years but now that I am out of school and able to walk I will most assuredly be hitting the woods more often, however I have to be more intelligent and less Neandertal in my activities as I have to think of my career that I think I can excel in- this means using knives that are more task appropriate and handle shaped for optimum comfort.

Again not attacking what you have said as you speak the truth based on experience, but clarifying one point that seemed contradictory based on my experience.

 

[coote]

Another top quality post from the Southern Hemisphere, the home of profound wisdom and intelligence

I find I just 'make do' with whatever knife I have in many cases. I like smaller handles for convenience in carrying. I guess I dont use a knife much at all really when I'm wandering around in the scrub. Even when I'm trapping or hunting the amount of knife work is relatively small.

The time I will be more careful to pick the knife that I want is when I know I have a lot of butchering or fish filleting to do.... when my hands may be cold and slippery. Then I want a comfortable, safe handle.

But I completely agree that a suitably-sized and comfortable handle is important if a knife is going to have a lot of use.

When I think of my ancestors getting by with just a flake of sharp rock or shell, then I think any knife with a handle is a huge improvement.

 

[GRIM 62]

I always enjoy your posts Mick,and agree 100%,that a properly designed knife handle makes a world of difference.Also,that all callouses are'nt created equal.

 

[Rick Marchand]

I think what Mick is saying about callouses can be translated not so literally as well. I don't think he is saying that he can pick up any tool and be comfortable right from the get go. Like breaking in a pair of hiking boots.... You find a design that works best for you... then wear the hell out of them. Mick finds a knife that is comfortable in a wide variety of grips. Then he makes it his own the best way possible.... through hours, months, years of use. Now, if he has to replace the knife.... he knows that a handle of similar design will work. The bonus is that his hands are already "seasoned" to use his tools. This crosses over into ALL your gear. There are no surprizes if you've used your kit in all types of conditions for extended periods of time...

That being said... I do think that part time outdoorsman can and should be taken just as seriously as the folks lucky enough to live it every day. I believe that a true woodsman is 80% heart, 13% skill and 7% fool.

Great post, Mick:thumbup:


Rick

 

[PayetteRucker]

I think what Mick is saying about callouses can be translated not so literally as well. Like breaking in a pair of hiking boots.... You find a design that works best for you... then wear the hell out of them. Mick finds a knife that is comfortable in a wide variety of grips. Then he makes it his own the best way possible.... through hours, months, years of use. Now, if he has to replace the knife.... he knows that a handle of similar design will work. The bonus is that his hands are already "seasoned" to use his tools. This crosses over into ALL your gear. There are no surprizes if you've used your kit in all types of conditions for extended periods of time...

Great post, Mick:thumbup:


Rick

This is the reason why I wear my packs until the material comes from together... I stitch and restitch the seams to keep em going because I know the frame is broken in and fits me well. Very true.

 

[SouthernCross]

G'day Guys

Perhaps I should clarify what some have seen as a contradiction between a handle that's comfortable in extended use and the advantages of callouses & muscle resillence.

A knife doesn't need to have an uncomfortable handle or textured surface to cause hot spots / blisters in extended use.

Probably the best way to demonstrate this is to use an example.

Take a knife that has a "fit like a glove" handle, one that is really comfortable.

Now spend at least 1/2 an hour to an hour doing heavy push cutting into rock hard seasoned hardwood. The sort of knife use I do to carve objects for use in the bush (eg woomeras, coolamons etc).

Even this comfortable handle can cause hot spots because of the amount of force being applied through the hand and into the handle over a long period of time.

However, a hand that is acoustomed to this, will not develop hot spots due to the callouses that have been earnt by this type of work.

The comfort of the handle in extended use and the muscle resilience that comes from this sort of useage will reduce / prevent the additional problems of deeper muscle soreness & fatigue from the extended use. But it will be the callouses that will prevent the formation of hot spots / blisters :thumbup:




Kind regards
Mick

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

I believe that a true woodsman is 80% heart, 13% skill and 7% fool.

Rick

I like that!

G'day Guys

Perhaps I should clarify what some have seen as a contradiction between a handle that's comfortable in extended use and the advantages of callouses & muscle resillence.

A knife doesn't need to have an uncomfortable handle or textured surface to cause hot spots / blisters in extended use.

Probably the best way to demonstrate this is to use an example.

Take a knife that has a "fit like a glove" handle, one that is really comfortable.

Now spend at least 1/2 an hour to an hour doing heavy push cutting into rock hard seasoned hardwood. The sort of knife use I do to carve objects for use in the bush (eg woomeras, coolamons etc).

Even this comfortable handle can cause hot spots because of the amount of force being applied through the hand and into the handle over a long period of time.

However, a hand that is acoustomed to this, will not develop hot spots due to the callouses that have been earnt by this type of work.

The comfort of the handle in extended use and the muscle resilience that comes from this sort of useage will reduce / prevent the additional problems of deeper muscle soreness & fatigue from the extended use. But it will be the callouses that will prevent the formation of hot spots / blisters :thumbup:




Kind regards
Mick

Thanks for the additional look at this. I must agree with what you said, that with all things equal callouses will help; I was pretty sure you weren't talking down those of us with girly hands like me (I doubt I'll ever get used to not having callouses, but the career is worth it) and appreciate the clarification. Good thing I know how to work out the muscle soreness and fatigue better than most now, I'll be able to keep up with 1/2 of what you calloused up bushmen can do! (or maybe get you to do the work and I'll work out your sore muscles in trade)

 

[fishshooter]

There are many places that don't allow you to cut trees for fuel or shelter. You have to rely on what is already on the ground.

As just one example, take a trip of a couple of years ago.

I had set up a tent fly as a tarp to protect my "lounge room" (really a couple of logs to keep my butt of the ground) from the then prevailing wind. A change of wind direction meant that a cold wind was now blowing inside the tarp.

My solution to the problem was to use the tools I took with me to build a wind break from bark & deadfall limbs at the end of the tarp :thumbup:



Kind regards
Mick

Unless I missed something, isn't Mick using what is already on the ground?

 

[SouthernCross]

G'day Fishshooter

Unless I missed something, isn't Mick using what is already on the ground?

You haven't missed something



Kind regards
Mick

 

[Myal]

G'day Guys


Now spend at least 1/2 an hour to an hour doing heavy push cutting into rock hard seasoned hardwood. The sort of knife use I do to carve objects for use in the bush (eg woomeras, coolamons etc).

Even this comfortable handle can cause hot spots because of the amount of force being applied through the hand and into the handle over a long period of time.

bit of a side note ever wondered when you doing this , how the hell did the old people do it with their stone tools ?

they worked green wood , specially for the woomeras , coolamons didnt need to flex or spring but a woomera has to , at least the old guy who showed me how to make them was of that opinion .

I do understand the issues nowdays of the pc-ness of using greenwood tho just chippin in

Myal ( Barkentji man )