Ontario RAT 1 or Essee Avispa

M

mauser133

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Jan 8, 2013
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I have owned a RAT and was impressed with the quality. How does the Avispa compare since they are similar knives. Preference?
 
The Avispa is an upgrade to the Rat. It is the design they said they originally wanted when designing the Rat.
 
RemyKaze said:
The Avispa is an upgrade to the Rat. It is the design they said they originally wanted when designing the Rat.
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I wouldn't call it an upgrade. I'd call it an option. I prefer the Rat 1 for blade shape and satin finish.
 
jrawk said:
I wouldn't call it an upgrade. I'd call it an option. I prefer the Rat 1 for blade shape and satin finish.
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I mean, other people can call it what they want lol. I'm not calling it an upgrade. I'm just saying that the folks at ESEE consider it an upgrade and also consider it closer to what they originally had in mind. The Rat handle(roughly) with more of a belt knife, centered point sort of blade. And it's a bit hard to judge, but I'd say it cuts a bit smoother. The stonewash is a LOT more attractive than the shiny fingerprint grabbing satin, but the lock isn't as easy to disengage.
 
The Avispa is a little shorter and a little lighter but otherwise samey-same.

Both are good quality knives and it's pretty much a personal preference.
 
I like the RAT-1 better. It just fits a bit better in hand for me due to the thicker handles. It's just personal preference though. Same size. Same materials. And I've even read same manufacturer.
 
At their sub-$30 price points the good news is you can probably try both without much trouble. I prefer the RAT but to each their own. Some may think the Avispa framelock is tougher than the RAT liner lock but compare their thicknesses at the narrowest points and it's a non-issue. Both great knives!
 
Do you want a Liner lock or a Frame lock?

For what its worth, I hear that the RAT1 is preferred by most because the handle is more comfortable. I think you'll be happy with either of them.
 
I never understood why people who compare liner locks to framelocks use that as an argument, at the point of contact a frame lock has significantly more metal in contact with the tang of the blade, making slipping less likely. The liner locks have less metal contacting the tang and lock slip more likely.

If a frame lock and a liner lock share the same thickness at some point they might have the same loading failure.. for example placing the handle in a vice and applying weight to the spine of the blade until the liner or frame buckles.

Liner lock failures I've experienced haven't been from too much weight on the spine of the knife its from lock slip. Framelocks can have lock slip as well but with more metal contact I think its less prone all things equal such as lock geometry etc.. all this Is IMO.
fetzer85 said:
At their sub-$30 price points the good news is you can probably try both without much trouble. I prefer the RAT but to each their own. Some may think the Avispa framelock is tougher than the RAT liner lock but compare their thicknesses at the narrowest points and it's a non-issue. Both great knives!
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The Avispa is flat and easy to carry, however, I would not carry frame lock knife out in the elements for more than a day or two,
I would prefer liner lock construction for number of reasons.
As geometry both, Rat1 and Avispa's handles are almost identical, the diference is in the blades, IMHO the Avispa blade is more suitable for longer use out in the field,
even if I would prefer a little bit more pointy tip... For me, because of the liner lock construction that makes the handle little bit more thicker ( "rounder" ),
the Rat 1 is more comfortable, especially when cutting trough some wood.

Both are solid knives, I use both very hard and there is no blade play whatsoever.

AUS 8 isn't the best steel for outdoor use (IMHO) but it's easy to sharpen so I guess it'll do it, depending on what's your intent to do with the knife.

IMHO, they should put Avispa's blade geometry on liner lock handle as the Rat1, this would make awesome outdoor knife, frame lock have no business outside the city but of course I could be mistaking.

I still cannot figure it out what's the deal with the clip, it leaves my knife useless when it's pressing on the lock bar, when I move it to right hand tip-up carry...

Here are few Rats, compared to the Avispa, top is Chinese knock off, slightly bigger as size, green G10 scales, crappy screws and thread lock:
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Prefer the Esee Avispa. I preferr the Kephart style blade for outdoor use. Rides nice in the pocket as its a bit flatter than the Rat. Basically the same knife, but with the blade shape and being thinner, the Avispa comes out on top.
Nightflyer
 
vonrichthofen54 said:
Prefer the Esee Avispa. I preferr the Kephart style blade for outdoor use. Rides nice in the pocket as its a bit flatter than the Rat. Basically the same knife, but with the blade shape and being thinner, the Avispa comes out on top.
Nightflyer
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You said it best.
 
The Rat 1 has a pretty weak AUS-8 heat treatment that doesn't hold an edge as long as Cold Steel's AUS-8, but when that Rat 1 is sharp it slices like a lazer. Never had an Avispa so I don't know how good they did their AUS-8.

I still want to get another RAT 1 in the future though because the price is right.
 
shinyedges said:
I never understood why people who compare liner locks to framelocks use that as an argument, at the point of contact a frame lock has significantly more metal in contact with the tang of the blade, making slipping less likely. The liner locks have less metal contacting the tang and lock slip more likely.

If a frame lock and a liner lock share the same thickness at some point they might have the same loading failure.. for example placing the handle in a vice and applying weight to the spine of the blade until the liner or frame buckles.

Liner lock failures I've experienced haven't been from too much weight on the spine of the knife its from lock slip. Framelocks can have lock slip as well but with more metal contact I think its less prone all things equal such as lock geometry etc.. all this Is IMO.
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Understood. I personally have never had either fail on me because I generally use fixed blades for hard use.
 
Agreed, when in doubt whip the fixed blade out lol The liner locks I've had slip were due to poor lock geometry on cheaper knives. I don't use folders for "hard use" mainly because even though some of the current locks shouldn't fail such as axis and tri ad locks they still get damaged and end up with blade play... I despise blade play.
fetzer85 said:
Understood. I personally have never had either fail on me because I generally use fixed blades for hard use.
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