Recommendation? Ontario RAT 1 vs CRKT M21-04G - which better?

And what is differcence between RAT 1 (8848SP) and RAT 2 (8860)? except that the first version have longer blade?
 
jog221 said:
And what is differcence between RAT 1 (8848SP) and RAT 2 (8860)? except that the first version have longer blade?
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bigger blade & bigger handle too... the rat2 will fit in most mini-clock pockets on jeans
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Personally I love my CRKTs. I own both and the M21 feels better in my hand. The Rat is a good knife but I reach for the M21 when I need a big knife.
 
jog221 said:
CRKT overall sucks or this one sucks?
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I've had only had a few CRKT knives over the years. The last two I tried were inexpensive fixed blades and both ended up being returns due to rough and/or off-center scales. In both cases, I probably could have put in the time and effort to fix that with an emery board but it just didn't feel worth it. The steel on both were sub-8Cr quality too.

That said, the M21-04G is a variant of their popular M-16 and uses 8Cr14Mov. I'm not sure how different that is from 8Cr13Mov, which I'd describe as the bottom floor of "okay" in budget knife steel. (There are a few threads actively debating that now.) I have some experience with the basic version of their M-16, which was sort of "okay". Understand that it has a manual safety on the back of the handle, which is as unnecessary as it is anti-ergonomic.

I don't have experience with the Rat knives but mostly because I prefer flipper tabs to thumb studs. I know at least two people who carry one IRL. You'll find people here who swear by them. They seem like good knives. I remember when they came out in D2 at a reasonable price, which was a little ahead of the curve. I'd put D2 in the next tier up from 8Cr13Mov or Aus-8. It remains popular because it tends to be harder and holds a good edge. (Of course, that means a little more work to sharpen it but ideally, you won't need to sharpen as often.) You'll sometimes see complaints that D2 rusts easily but that tends to be in comparison with better steels. It has about the same corrosion resistance as 8Cr13Mov. Just remember to clean and oil it as needed.
 
CRKT is slightly longer blade (0.2”), slightly heavier (0.2oz), low-end stainless steel, flipper w/ redundant safety, and has more open-sided handle construction.

RAT I is still a heavy knife relative to blade length, has better steel for the money (D2 at $40 range or AUS8 for budget $20-ish version), somewhat odd ergonomics (the blade angle relative to the handle is something that bothers some folks), and closed sides.

Generally, the D2 RAT is considered to be one of the better budget-friendly hard-use folders available. The only real “advantages” the CRKT has are stainless steel and a flipper. And, since a stainless RAT I will cost you less than $30, that’s not really much of a plus for the CRKT.
 
jog221 said:
RAT is made in Taiwan... I will consider this again...
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Well, if you don't want to get a knife made in one of the leading knife making countries (Taichung is one of the world's top centers of quality knife manufacture), then that is your call.

(psst...where is the CRKT made?)
 
When my junkie stepson needed to sell a couple of my knives to feed his habit, he selected a Mini Barrage and an M21. He has promised to reimburse me some day, but frankly, I don’t care about the M21.

I like my RAT-2, but find the RAT-1 a bit big for my pocket. If it were down to the RAT or the M21, though, I’d take the RAT-1 in a minute, no thought, no hesitation.
 
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Rat1 or 2.... the quality just can't be beat for the money. I've edc a Rat2 for a couple of years now and for a beater it has been great.
 
jog221 said:
Hello, Can you describe the advantages and disadvantages of both knives?
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Better for what? I've got both and like them both. The M21-046 PE actually was the 1st CRKT that I ever bought. Just liked the look of it.

The RAT is obviously better as a camp/general utility knife. Cheap and easy to resharpen; extremely functional but aesthetically boring. The CRKT just looks cool and is theoretically a "survival" knife that I could use as camp/general utility knife but why bother doing that when I already have a RAT?

I 'd rather use the RAT as an all-purpose beater and just carry the CRKT as a show piece and possible SD "intimidator." LOL! ;)
 
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specgrade said:
Rat1 or 2.... the quality just can't be beat for the money. I've edc a Rat2 for a couple of years now and for a beater it has been great.
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The Rat knives are a clear winner in this contest, by a landslide. Within the market at large though, competition has been creeping up. Personally, I think Civivi holds the current title of "nicest knives for the money".
 
I own a Rat 1, Rat 2, and a CRKT M16. I like some of the ergos on the M16 better but that could be that I've used it longer so I am used to it. Heat treatment is better on the Rat knives. So is workmanship and materials. No question in my mind that Ontario's Rat knives are the way to go.

Also, CRKT uses a matte finish on most of their knives, including the M16 series. You will get rust on the liners. I guarantee it. Dirt, debris, and moisture all collect on the liners. It may take a long time but it will happen. I've tried all sort of stuff to keep it from happening and short of tearing the knife completely down from time to time, there's not much you can do.

Remember, the CRKT was designed as a custom knife and then back engineered to meet a certain price point. The goal was achieved by cutting cost on workmanship and materials. Ontario's RAT series was designed from the ground up to meet its price point. Based upon this info, which would you own?
 
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