Open Letter to Neil Ostroff

A

Architect

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For those of you that follow custom knives, I am making this an “Open Letter” to Neil Ostroff, a “registered user” on Bladeforums.

This post is in no way intended to reflect upon Neil’s business, True North Knives. I have had several dealings with TNK, and they were all professional and the service was excellent. TNK has one of the two best Internet knife sales websites in the world, IMO.

A few weeks ago, there was a post regarding the quality of locks by a particular custom knifemaker. I made a post of my opinion, based on my experiences, as I have handled and used many custom knives and several by the maker in question.

I received an unsolicited private message (via Bladeforums) and an email (at my publicy posted email address). Both were from Neil, and he objected to my “defamatory remarks” and “blatant trashing” of the maker. (The messages were private and will not be shared unless Neil would like them to be).

I responded to Neil and reviewed my post, point by point, pointing out my complimentary statements (as well as my negative comments) about this maker. In regard to Neil’s’ opinions, I indicated I would not change my opinions or post. Neil responded in kind, and indicated, “case closed”.

Last week, I had a reason to contact TNK regarding a “customized” special order William Henry Quest. WHK would only customize the knife for Neil, reason unexplained. Neil has refused to do business with me. When asked (again via email) if the reason was the comments made on Bladeforums, Neil declined to explain his actions, although contacted twice (he did get the emails and replied without substance).

Neil’s position (so stated) is both personal (felt my comments were “blatant trashing” of a “great human being”.) and business related ((felt my comments might threaten sales of this makers work (ha!!) because I am viewed as “influential”)).

Thanks for the compliment Neil, but I don’t consider myself too influential in the world of custom knives, or even Bladeforums for that matter. Maybe I am wrong, how would I know?

We are all responsible for our actions. I am a big boy, and if Neil doesn’t want to do business with me, that is fine, I doubt his business will suffer for it.

I do think, however, that Neil’s decision to use comments I made on a private web forum (that he does not support) as the basis for taking “revenge” against me in his business is inappropriate and suggests that one should not speak too freely, even if one’s opinions are based on fact, however limited. Neil, in an effort to favor his own business interests, posts only when he can come off as a good guy and saves his vindictive and ugly side for private messages and emails. I don’t appreciate being on the receiving end of vitriol in private, from comments made on a public forum.

By not participating in the thread, Neil, you are only showing that you are a coward. Maybe when you object to a post, perhaps you could jump in and provide your perspective, not just when it helps to build your public image, if you feel so strongly about it.

If you are going to trawl Bladeforums because it is a resource for you the industry and your business sales, then why don’t you support BF with at least a Gold membership? You may not use the features provided, but you are most certainly using it as a business tool.
 
Stuart,

That's pure BS, TNK just lost ANOTHER customer because of Niel's CHILDISH behavior. :mad:

I thought the clown who gave you negative rep points for expressing your opinion was bad enough... :rolleyes:




Mr. Ostroff,

Can a man no longer have his own opinion?

I started the original thread seeking personal opinions of Terzoula's work, Stuart offered his, and I see nothing that could qualifies as "defamatory" in his reply.

I'm glad that Stuart and others related their experiences, both positive AND negative. I've bought knives in the past based on popular opinion of a maker's work and have been VERY disappointed, which left me scratching my head because everybody else told me what great knives they were. I value one negative opinion from a trustworthy person far more than a dozen positive opinions that all sound the same.

Bob himself related that he appreciates criticism of his work, as all makers should. I'd imagine if he found the comments by Stuart or anyone else offensive, he'd speak up for himself.

You've lost two customers today because of your actions, way to go.
Maybe you should think long and hard about what causes real damage to person's reputation. :footinmou
 
While I do not agree with Neil's decision to not deal with you, it IS his decision to make. Its totally within his rights to refuse a sale or services to anyone he sees fit. What surprises me is someone running a business would pass up a sale period. So you must have really struck a cord with him in this thread. :eek:
 
It would be appreciated by all if you'd post a link directing us to the thread in question.

It helps to have all of the information available, so potential customers of the maker in question can make an informed decision.
 
I read your comments and bet Bob T. would still sell you his knives.

Too bad Neil is so sensitive. [Oops, does this mean I can no longer buy from TNK]

Happy Holidays....................................
 
Having had some correspondense with Neil in the past, I am very surprised to read this. Neil is a great guy, but maybe his close friendship with Bob T caused him to be too emotionally involved in the issue.

Anyhow, knowing Neil like I do and even though I am surprised by his actions here, I would not hesitate to do business with him in the future. His emotions may get the better of him, but his business ethics and honesty are top notch.

Here is a link to the thread in question.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=318511
 
I cannot comment on what TNK did or didn't do and unless and until Neil wants to make himself available to respond or explain, I have to assume I've only heard one side of the story. I mean no disrespect to Architect but when a man's reputation and livlihood are on the line I hesitate to pass judgement without hearing both sides or seeing all the evidence. Force of habit, I guess.

And it is worth remembering that Architect made a point of saying:
This post is in no way intended to reflect upon Neil’s business, True North Knives. I have had several dealings with TNK, and they were all professional and the service was excellent. TNK has one of the two best Internet knife sales websites in the world, IMO.
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But I have read the posts in the thread linked above. i see nothing defamatory or improper by Architect - just a knife collector's apparently honest opinion, which is something I value and come to this forum to read and share. If critical opinions and comments aren't permitted, then positive opinions become utterly meaningless puffery and untrustworthy. Seems to me the thread invited honest opinions and that's what was given.

The knife community is fairly close-knit sometimes and I can see how sometimes offence could be taken at critical comments, but IMHO if the comments are honest and civil, it would be unfair and poor business practice to respond with commercial excommunication. But whether that is the actual story here I don't know. I would hope not.


I regret to say I have not had the pleasure of owning one of that maker's knives. If I saw one that struck my fancy in my price range I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. For a long time I've been wary of liner locks, for several reasons, and sometimes I have had problems with knives from even some of my favourite makers. Every experienced knife knut has his preferences, and his frustrations. But I love my liner locks, even the slightly imperfect ones too. I didn't hear that the maker's knives were bad, just not absolutely first tier. Is that such a terrible thing to say?
 
Just to clarify one point - Neil Ostroff is in the process of renewing his gold membership. It's been delayed because of the foreign credit card. Actually he's not just renewing, he's upgrading to platinum at the same time.
 
Neil's always been a good bloke and I'll certainly buy from him again, especially when I want one of Bob Terzuola's knives.

Roger
 
Architect - you have been more than straightforward and gentlemanly in your conduct - that said, if the guy does not want to do business, so be it - go to a different guy or call the maker and explain - hell, even print out and fax WHK a copy of the thread if need be - unless the knife you are looking to have worked on is defective, you may be out of luck, but I saw nothing in your posts regarding Bob Terzuola knives that could be construed as trashing - in reality Mr. Terzuola thanked you for your comments and my guess is that he will take them to heart and address your concerns.

If TNK is really so bunged up about an honest discussion rather than the usual internet slathering of praise many makers have heaped upon them with no varying opinions, so what - do business elsewhere - this give you the opportunity to create a relationship with the maker directly and the middleman can start to realize his mistake, or not.
 
My guess is Neil has his own agenda and his actions and opinions were soley based on his own personal profit. I personaly won't buy from this guy anymore.
Larry
 
Larry B. said:
My guess is Neil has his own agenda and his actions and opinions were soley based on his own personal profit. I personaly won't buy from this guy anymore.
Larry
Click to expand...

I doubt very much that his actions were motivated by personal profit. I think it is much more likely that they were motivated by his close personal friendship with Bob T.

In an open forum like this we should all be able to voice our opinions and experiences without being castigated for them. Architect, like everyone else, had every right to put his two cents in and he did not do so in a disrespectful manner.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I doubt very much that his actions were motivated by personal profit. I think it is much more likely that they were motivated by his close personal friendship with Bob T.

In an open forum like this we should all be able to voice our opinions and experiences without being castigated for them. Architect, like everyone else, had every right to put his two cents in and he did not do so in a disrespectful manner.
Click to expand...

I agree.Nevertheless people should respect other peoples opinion even if they dissagree with it.
Larry
 
Odd situation indeed.

I tend to keep business dealings seperate from personal posts. I've seen people make really rude inappropriate posts and have still traded with them and purchased from their stores and gotten good service - I just probably wouldn't have a beer on their front porch with them. ;)

I personally find it distasteful when someone emails or PMs me something nasty rather than posting it on the public forum. I think it's bad form. From his point of view I can see wanting to keep the best public face possible and keeping any unpleasantness off the boards...

...but then we may not find his emails to Architect as unpleasant as Architect took them. Maybe Architect's replies to those emails ticked Neil off even further. :p

If I were Neil I probably would have kept business seperate from an argument on the forum. But since it was a CUSTOM order I could see not wanting to work with someone I thought was an A.H. (hypothetically) ;)
 
Architect: I have been following this thread, and the original one. What has transpired is indeed unfortunate. Although I considered the first thread (Terzuola) a bit harsh on the maker, opinions were freely expressed and that is what these forums are for. I cannot comment on Neil's reply because I am not privy to that email. I know both Neil and Bob T., and, respect them both.
What I am not clear on is the assumed connection between the first conflict and the refusal to take the order for the William Henry knife. Do you know for a fact that William Henry even wanted/agreed to make the knife? I ask, because as a maker, when a customer requests a special order thru my dealers, they contact me and ask me if I will make it. Sometimes, for a variety of reasons, the answer is "no". If this is the case, then Neil is not at fault. So, perhaps an email to William Henry knives might be in order. If he will make it for you, then, get it directly from him or buy it through another dealer. The object of the exercise is to get the knife you want, right???????

Second, what, if any, is your previous history with Neil? Has he mistreated you in previous transactions (if any)? I ask because when reasonable people respond like this, there is often more to the story than I know about.
And, like many dealers, Neil lives to sell...If he's not selling something to someone, there must be a good reason.

Just my 2 cents. Hate to see tempers flaring over soething that is supposed to be fun.
 
I think it would be very interesting for Neil to post his side of this story, but that is not going to happen. If it were, I think that we would find that there are definitely two sides to every story.
 
Ah the internet,it's often very hard to get a read on peoples true feelings.I have delt with and spoken to Neil on many occasions and have had nothing but good experiences.Architect,I hope you find what you are looking for but I don't think it will come out of this thread.
 
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