Opinions (and help) on fire starters

Khalnath said:
Knowing that you have to use PJ cotton balls or similar tinder is part of the skill involved though. How many people have you heard of trying to use a firesteel for the first time and getting nowhere?
Click to expand...

Well, ya I guess you're right, but if you are on this forum, no doubt you've heard of PJ CB and fatwood. Of course if you have never seen or heard of a firesteel, you probably won't get too far with it. I'm not suggesting that you carry something you don't know how to use. I'm suggesting that it is worth learning how to use one.

stevekt said:
I think that says more about the cotton balls and fatwood than the fire steel. You stated that your dad had watched you and needed a "less than a handful of strokes". Which means he was trained (by you) and it did take him a few practice tries (lesss than a handful) before he got the fire going. Give an average person a lighter and another average person a firesteel under average conditions and see who will light their cotton balls and fatwood first.

Also a firesteel is not a guaranteed back up and they won't always work. According to the ad that was posted they last for 3,000 to 12,000 sparks depending on the model. And the article that was posted stated that firesteels are prone to rust and corrosion in damp environments. To me that sounds like firesteels can fail just like lighters and other fire starters.
Click to expand...

Well I guess you could call them practice tries, but I play with my firesteel all the time, and I can't even light it with one strike every time.

Of course, in average conditions the lighter will be faster. If you read my entire post you notice that I didn't say that the firesteel was in any way quicker, or more easier to use, just that you will still be able to start a fire if your ideal firestarter(i.e. lighter) doesn't work.

And yes, a firesteel doesn't last forever, I never said it did, but if there is still material left it will give you a spark. I don't know about you but I don't think many people are going to go out with a firesteel handle and try to start a fire.:jerkit: Obviously you can't get a spark from something that's not there.

Yyyaaa... if you think that a little rust is going to somehow render a firesteel useless, maybe you should try one before making errant assumptions. In order for a firesteel to fail from rust, it would have to be completely eaten through and practically turned to dust, and that would probably take a couple hundred if not thousands of years. If you have a piece of firesteel in your hand, it will not fail to give you a spark, you however may fail at properly preparing a fire, but even a lighter won't help you with that.

Give a hiker a wet lighter, and another hiker a wet firesteel on a windy day at high altitude and see who will light their cotton balls and fatwood period. Will the lighter work? Are you willing to bet your life on it?

Again, I'm not saying you shouldn't carry a lighter, I carry a bic everyday, and there's one in my unfinished PSK. I'm just saying that you should carry a backup that is different, so all your eggs aren't in one basket. Hey, most likely that bic will light right up and you will have saved some precious energy, but if it doesn't at least you'll know you have something to fall back on.
 
stingray4540 said:
Well, ya I guess you're right, but if you are on this forum, no doubt you've heard of PJ CB and fatwood. Of course if you have never seen or heard of a firesteel, you probably won't get too far with it. I'm not suggesting that you carry something you don't know how to use. I'm suggesting that it is worth learning how to use one.
Click to expand...

You're putting words in my mouth. If you're on this forum, no doubt you know to learn to use the thing before you trust your life to it, too. I was speaking in generalities, not about members of this forum. Are you claiming nobody's ever failed to light a fire with a firesteel without instruction? For the record, I have one and love it. I'm not saying it's HARD to learn, I'm just saying you have to learn. I'm also saying everyone SHOULD. Yes, you absolutely can learn how just from reading this forum and practicing. I did.

stingray4540 said:
Give a hiker a wet lighter, and another hiker a wet firesteel on a windy day at high altitude and see who will light their cotton balls and fatwood period. Will the lighter work? Are you willing to bet your life on it?
Click to expand...

If they have cotton balls and/or fatwood, they clearly have some clue what they're doing. If you take two hikers, one buys a Bic at the store and one buys a firesteel, and then they both go out into the woods without further instruction, the one with the Bic is far more likely to start a fire. At high altitude, odds are very good neither will be successful if they don't know what kind of tinder they need to make use of a firesteel. I have personally witnessed a camping buddy, who is not clueless about building fires, fail to get a fire with his new firesteel because he didn't use appropriate tinder for it. (This was before I knew how to use one myself.) Guess what he fell back on to get the fire going?
 
Khalnath said:
Are you claiming nobody's ever failed to light a fire with a firesteel without instruction?
Click to expand...

:confused:No I am not making any such claim. I think you may have misunderstood me, because the rest of your post is basically saying what you have already said, and I already agree. So... I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say, or what you thought I was saying.

Also, I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I was agreeing with your comment that simply knowing what tinder to use is one of the skills needed to use a firesteel.
See:
Khalnath said:
Knowing that you have to use PJ cotton balls or similar tinder is part of the skill involved though.
Click to expand...
stingray4540 said:
Well, ya I guess you're right,
Click to expand...

I am mostly talking about people on this forum that refuse to learn how to use, or take as backup, a firsteel. It seems that you are talking about giving the average joe smo off the street a firesteel. I think there may be a little misunderstanding between our posts.
 
2 0r 3 bic lighters scattered around. Fastest way to get fire. Firesteel or mag block for backup. Some here just like to play with flint. When you are serious about starting a fire fast use a Bic lighter. Never broke a bic in my life and if you carry a couple or three its not an issue.

Skam
 
If you are really serious about lighting a fire fast, use a JET lighter, not a Bic. I suspect if you think Bics are so great, you probably live somewhere that isn't that windy. Here in BC, Bics are a headache due to wind. Jet lighters will pretty much light anything that'll burn on fire though, and are mostly immune to wind. Or you could get one of these. I bought mine for $5 at Wally World, and OMFG. This thing has an insanely hot huge flame. If you can't make a fire with one of these, you really just suck.

I'm not against lighters, butane or naptha, but I really don't like Bics very much.
 
I have a Blastmatch and I absolutely love it. I seem to have greater success with that than with other firesteels. Perhaps I could ask others if there is a big difference between the Light My Fire Scout and Army model. I purchased a Scout to add to a second kit, and so far am not impressed. I have started fires, but nowhere as easily as with the Blastmatch. For instance, I was using fatwood today, and made two fires. It was a little windy and I had a tough time with the Scout. No trouble with the Blastmatch. Unfortunately, I don't have an Army model to compare but have tried a frends once or twice.

While I am at it, fatwood rocks. I added a couple of sticks to my kit today after the experiments. Previously I had PJ cotton balls in a film container, and will still carry that in the kit. I also made some straws this morning and they were really neat. Quite compact.

Practicing fire starting skills is a great leisure activity that could be extremely important one day.
 
The LMF Scout model is 1/4" diameter and the Army model is 3/8" diameter(claiming to give 9,000 more strikes as a result). Other than that, same materials used, same sparks thrown. Although with the Army model having greater surface area to strike, it will theoretically throw more and bigger sparks.


Gautier
 
Khalnath said:
If you are really serious about lighting a fire fast, use a JET lighter, not a Bic. I suspect if you think Bics are so great, you probably live somewhere that isn't that windy. Here in BC, Bics are a headache due to wind. Jet lighters will pretty much light anything that'll burn on fire though, and are mostly immune to wind. Or you could get one of these. I bought mine for $5 at Wally World, and OMFG. This thing has an insanely hot huge flame. If you can't make a fire with one of these, you really just suck.

I'm not against lighters, butane or naptha, but I really don't like Bics very much.
Click to expand...

Jet lighters break and break often, terribly unreliable over the long term. I owned 2 never again. Bics light every time. Want to learn how to light a bic in the wind, find a smoker to teach you.

Skam
 
Ah yes, I forgot that most jet lighters have those irritating platinum wire mesh doohickeys. THOSE are fragile and unreliable. If you get the ceramic cone type, they're much more dependable.
 
but if there is still material left it will give you a spark.
Click to expand...

Then why are they advertised at 3,000 sparks? (Scout model) Surely 3,000 strikes won't wear the firesteel down to nothing? Does it come to a point where the rod simply doesn't spark anymore?

Yyyaaa... if you think that a little rust is going to somehow render a firesteel useless, maybe you should try one before making errant assumptions.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I made that assumption based on the information in the article that was posted, admitedly not from personal experience. He seemed to emphasize that firesteels will corode in damp environments and preventive measures (nail polish or something) should be taken to maintain a firesteel. I took it as a red flag.

I've never tried a firesteel and certainly never tried a rusty one nor tried to get 3,001 sparks out of one. But I am quite curious now and will likely place an order for one and give it a try.
 
stevekt said:
Yeah, I made that assumption based on the information in the article that was posted, admitedly not from personal experience. He seemed to emphasize that firesteels will corode in damp environments and preventive measures (nail polish or something) should be taken to maintain a firesteel. I took it as a red flag.
.
Click to expand...

I've left cheap wally-world mag bars (with the firesteel component) in a damp basement for over a decade. It was still perfectly functional as when I bought it. The firesteels of higher quality (like the Light My Fire stuff) is certainly tougher. I use my scout model frequently, practice all the time, and use it on every outing. I've never had any corrode for any reason, certainly not from rain or cold, etc.
 
Well, to be fair(having package in hand since I purchased another LMF Scout model recently), they say "lasts approximately 3000 strikes". I kind of doubt that upon striking magic number 3000 it will disappear, it's more of a safe estimate on their part for marketing purposes. People are always pleased when a product does more than it's guaranteed to.
Different people will apply different amounts of pressure to strike a fire. Even one user is likely to vary the pressure from time to time, thus giving an inconsistent amount of "material used per strike", I know I do...especially if conditions are cold, windy, or damp.


Gautier
 
stevekt said:
But I am quite curious now and will likely place an order for one and give it a try.
Click to expand...

That's all I'm asking is that you don't write it off until you've tried it. Of course, you are not likely to quit carrying your lighters, they are still much faster and easier, but at least you'll have something to back up your lighters if by chance they fail to work when you need them the most. And believe me, they are tons of fun to play with, something about starting a fire that way makes me look for excuses to start fires. Make sure you pick up some fatwood too, cause that stuff is just awesome, and smells good to boot.
 
This is a Blastmatch. It's a particular form of ferrocerium rod. The main idea is that they are one-handed, but I suspect they are also more effective due to the striker curving to contact a larger surface of the rod. I have never used one though.

My father bought me some REI Stormproof Matches on his last trip to the states, and they do work damned well. I dropped one in the snow yesterday... and it stayed lit. They burn really hot too. A nice extra is that they come with two extra strikers per box, so you don't have to cut up the box if you want to repackage them. This is in addition to the two strikers on the actual box. I sure wish someone would make strike anywhere windproof matches though.
 
I was digging through an old box of stuff and found a bic lighter that was several years old. The "flint" in it had completely turned to dust.

I'm a fan of the firesteel. It isnt idiot proof, and it really helps to have a good knife to prepare tinder but if you have any idea what youre doing its more reliable than a lighter. Sure a bic is faster under ideal conditions, but ive struggled to keep it burning long enough just to light a smoke when its windy, even using your body and jacket to shield it from 3 sides.
 
I have gotten oxidization on my 10x100mm firesteel in a single day from having it in my pants underneath waders while in salt water. My pants were damp, the firesteel was greenish looking. It really did not matter, as it still works fine.
I carry a firesteel and a bic. I also carry waxed paper in my wallet for quick tinder. The firesteels work fine, but they are simply another tool, just like the bic. No better, no worse, just different. In a cold area, I suggest a bic, a firesteel w/ tinder, and some REI matches. It makes a tiny little package, and you can use whichever one will work in the particular conditions. Not really too much to decide.
 
I dont know how many strikes I have gotten out of my scout, but I think that the closer you get to 3,000 strikes, the thinner the metal will get which will eventually cause the metal to snap leaving you with The Firesteel Stub. Since the scout is already pretty short, cutting it in half would almost make it a worthless piece of metal to the average Joe.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top