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couple of people reccomended this to me was curious on peoples opinions?? what are the handles made of??? what quality steel is 420 HC stainless??
opinions on buck woodsman
- Thread starter RescueRiley
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The Buck 102 is IMO, one of the finest knives I have ever owned. I bought my first one new in 1972-73 via mail order and I still have it. I just purchased another one brand new last year at Bass Pro Shops and have been using it non-stop and the performance is great.
If you have the black handled version the material is Phenolic. Phenolic is a composite compound if memory serves. I can tell you that this handle material is virtually indestructible.
420HC is a remarkable steel and is one of my all time favorites when properly heat treated and finished. Here is a great read on the steel specifications that will enlighten and educate:
http://www.buckknives.com/technical_steel.php
If you have the black handled version the material is Phenolic. Phenolic is a composite compound if memory serves. I can tell you that this handle material is virtually indestructible.
420HC is a remarkable steel and is one of my all time favorites when properly heat treated and finished. Here is a great read on the steel specifications that will enlighten and educate:
http://www.buckknives.com/technical_steel.php
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I have never owned one but the design has been around for years - a proven classic in that sense. I believe the recent production knives use some type of phenolic for the handles though I have seen cocobola (wood) handles advertised.
420HC is considered a "low end" stainless knife steel. What this means in practice is that you'll probably need to sharpen it more frequently than a comparable knife of the "high end" stainless steels like VG-10/S30V. How much more frequently? Well no one can really tell you. The good news is that it will probably be pretty easy to resharpen in the field should it be required.
There are lots of choices in this price range. At this price point I would probably choose the (non-stainless) D2 Queen rabbit knife over the Woodsman but that's me. OK, call me a steel snob
420HC is considered a "low end" stainless knife steel. What this means in practice is that you'll probably need to sharpen it more frequently than a comparable knife of the "high end" stainless steels like VG-10/S30V. How much more frequently? Well no one can really tell you. The good news is that it will probably be pretty easy to resharpen in the field should it be required.
There are lots of choices in this price range. At this price point I would probably choose the (non-stainless) D2 Queen rabbit knife over the Woodsman but that's me. OK, call me a steel snob
I've carried a Buck Woodsman as a boot knife for about 15 years. Got a BladeTech IWB Kydex sheath for it and just laced it into the front of my boot.
It has been the one constant in my duty gear over the years. I've carried lots of folders, different handguns, rifles and shotguns, different duty rigs, you name it, I've changed it...except for the little 102.
It's light, sharp, tough (yes, I've batoned with it), doesn't rust and if I lose it in the river I won't cry like I would if it was a high-dollar custom. (and I have a spare)
I've sharpened pencils with it, cut summer sausage, ate beans, built fires, cut open deer to recover bullets for evidence, opened packages and mail and used it for just about any other chore you'd use a knife for.
It doesn't look 'tactical', it doesn't look scary, it's not high-speed but it is low-drag, in that it just looks like a hunting knife. It's not the only knife I have, but it wouldn't bother me much if it was.
It has been the one constant in my duty gear over the years. I've carried lots of folders, different handguns, rifles and shotguns, different duty rigs, you name it, I've changed it...except for the little 102.
It's light, sharp, tough (yes, I've batoned with it), doesn't rust and if I lose it in the river I won't cry like I would if it was a high-dollar custom. (and I have a spare)
I've sharpened pencils with it, cut summer sausage, ate beans, built fires, cut open deer to recover bullets for evidence, opened packages and mail and used it for just about any other chore you'd use a knife for.
It doesn't look 'tactical', it doesn't look scary, it's not high-speed but it is low-drag, in that it just looks like a hunting knife. It's not the only knife I have, but it wouldn't bother me much if it was.
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Kraz,
I believe you are confusing 420 with 420HC which has much higher carbon content, thus the "HC". I can tell you and others that 420HC does sharpen easily and retains an edge for a very respectable amount of time. I have personally used this knife with great success primarily as a boning knife on countless Deer and Hog since the early 1970's all around the southeast. Now certainly it is not as great as the newly released so-called super steels like S30V, D-2 or BG-42, but lets be very clear that 420HC is not a "low end" stainless steel. For more facts on commonly used knife steel specs you may want to refer to the link that I provided in post #2 of this thread to educate yourself.
All the Best ~ ><> ~
troutfisher13111
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The Buck woodsman is my favorite small game knife. Excels in either task. The 420HC holds a good edge and its fairly easy to sharpen.
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how would it fair as a general purpose camp/survival knife??? also would it hold up to being submerged in salt water if cared for properly afterward??
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Great!
A tad small, depending on what you mean by "survival", it wouldn't be my first choice for batonning or some of the more harsher wilderness tasks.
Probably just fine, 420HC is pretty rust resistant, and the handles are pretty tough. If cleaned off and cared for properly it should be a good choice.
troutfisher13111
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Its a little small for survival, but it is definitely a better choice than a folder. As far as holding up to saltwater, my guess would be that it would do just fine.
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I've got the Pathfinder, it's the same knife but with an extra inch of blade. I've used it for a lot of camp tasks and it holds up fine. I worked at the beach over the summer, and even without being submerged in the water, it began to rust a little. Nothing to serious though, just a few little spots that were easily taken care of. It was because I didnt clean it frequently enough, not the knife itself, just about anything will rust at the beach if it isnt properly cared for.
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Thanks for all the help so far everyone...I know I ask alot of crazy questions, but hey it keeps the forum going you are all wonderfull and I am glad to belong to such a community. A place where I can ask theses questions and talk about these things without people recomending psych meds...
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Older 102's are made of 440C, a much better steel than 420hc. 420HC is more amenable to bulk stamping. See if you can find one at a gun show that has the older over the top sheath. Mine was bought in alaska in 1971, carried it for years as EDC and would still except that my dad bought it for me and I decided it was worth more as a 35 year old memento of Dad, than as a user.
The handles are phenolic resin compounds, basically phenolic resin is impregnated into cloth or paper and then the whole mess is squeezed really hard. After the glue sets up, you get a incredible tough material that insulates, resists pretty much all solvents and soaps, is warm in the hand, and lasts virtually forever.
The handles are phenolic resin compounds, basically phenolic resin is impregnated into cloth or paper and then the whole mess is squeezed really hard. After the glue sets up, you get a incredible tough material that insulates, resists pretty much all solvents and soaps, is warm in the hand, and lasts virtually forever.
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I don't own the woodsman but I own a special and several of there us made lock backs.Many people consider 420 to be cheap steel but I really like bucks,sharpens up nice and easy and holds an edge long enough for me.
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I respectively disagree Sunnyd and I understand the difference between 420 and 420HC. This URL gives a comprehensive table comparison versus other steels: http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/blade_materials.html
In composition, 420HC is closest to INOX, the steel used to manufacture many Swiss army knives. I find Swiss army knives to be very usable tools (I own 5 Vics?) but I wouldn't compare my Swiss army knife blades to knives with blades of any of the steels you listed.
I'm sorry if you take offense to the words "low end", I certainly did not mean to imply it was either a poor value or a bad choice. Perhaps I should have said "lower end" as in not the worst choice. Certainly it is not "low end" relative to the many Taiwanese imports made of "surgical steel", whatever that is. It is simply a lower priced, lower performance steel in comparison with other modern stainless knife steels like VG-10 and S30V.
The URL you referenced in post #2 is Buck authored marketing material and I greatly prefer manufacturer independent sources when they are available.
I snipped this quote this from the Knife Steel FAQ:
"440Aand its relative peers, 425M, 420HC, 12C27, and 6Aare the next group. They can be hardened more than the previous group, for better strength, and they are more wear resistant, though wear resistance is just getting to the point of acceptability. 440A and 12C27 are the leaders of this group, with solid heat treat both perform okay. 12C27 is said to be particularly pure and can perform very well when heat treated properly. 6A trails those two steels, though with its vanadium content, can take a razor edge. 425M and 420HC trail the rest." The URL (which contains much informative material on knife steel) is http://www.zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml and the author is Joe Talmadge.
Please do not assume I am uneducated on a topic simply because you disagree with my statement. Oftentimes relative comparisons are interpreted very differently by each reader. Only through continued discourse can we discover the author's meaning and assumptions.
Finally, as one who also values education and correctness I should point out that D2 is generally not classified a stainless steel even though D2 steel is very stain resistant. D2's chromium content is just slightly below the threshold many consider "stainless". Regardless, it makes great knife blades. This is why I suggested that I would rather choose the Queen knife in D2 over the Buck Woodsman in 420HC.
Cheers,
Kraz
In composition, 420HC is closest to INOX, the steel used to manufacture many Swiss army knives. I find Swiss army knives to be very usable tools (I own 5 Vics?) but I wouldn't compare my Swiss army knife blades to knives with blades of any of the steels you listed.
I'm sorry if you take offense to the words "low end", I certainly did not mean to imply it was either a poor value or a bad choice. Perhaps I should have said "lower end" as in not the worst choice. Certainly it is not "low end" relative to the many Taiwanese imports made of "surgical steel", whatever that is
. It is simply a lower priced, lower performance steel in comparison with other modern stainless knife steels like VG-10 and S30V.The URL you referenced in post #2 is Buck authored marketing material and I greatly prefer manufacturer independent sources when they are available.
I snipped this quote this from the Knife Steel FAQ:
"440Aand its relative peers, 425M, 420HC, 12C27, and 6Aare the next group. They can be hardened more than the previous group, for better strength, and they are more wear resistant, though wear resistance is just getting to the point of acceptability. 440A and 12C27 are the leaders of this group, with solid heat treat both perform okay. 12C27 is said to be particularly pure and can perform very well when heat treated properly. 6A trails those two steels, though with its vanadium content, can take a razor edge. 425M and 420HC trail the rest." The URL (which contains much informative material on knife steel) is http://www.zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml and the author is Joe Talmadge.
Please do not assume I am uneducated on a topic simply because you disagree with my statement. Oftentimes relative comparisons are interpreted very differently by each reader. Only through continued discourse can we discover the author's meaning and assumptions.
Finally, as one who also values education and correctness I should point out that D2 is generally not classified a stainless steel even though D2 steel is very stain resistant. D2's chromium content is just slightly below the threshold many consider "stainless". Regardless, it makes great knife blades. This is why I suggested that I would rather choose the Queen knife in D2 over the Buck Woodsman in 420HC.
Cheers,
Kraz
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I own the Queen 74 "rabbit knife" in carved stag bone/D2. It is a very well made knife, with superb steel, thin blade, and is very usefull for small game chores. BUT, it is a very very small knife, with a super slim handle. In my big old ham hands (I'm 6'-3'', 235 lbs.) it feels like a toy. The knife is approximately the same size as an opened trapper slipjoint. Buck's 102 Woodsman is just a tad longer with it's 4'' blade, and the handle is larger diameter and somewhat longer. If you are a larger person with thick clumsy fingers like me, that could be a deciding factor in which knife you purchased. Also to consider is the Queen 92 pattern fixed blade. It has a 4-1/4'' flat ground blade, and the handle is very close to the Woodsman in size. All of these knives are in the $35 to $50 range, depending upon where you find them. All make fine small game knives. One more to think about is the Case Finn, which is also a compact 4'' bladed knife made especially for small game and fish chores. The 3Finn is stacked leather handled and the 5Finn is stag (available once again). I have this knife also, and I have to do the eeny meeny miny moe thing to decide which to carry hunting with me between the Queen 74 and 92 or the Case 5Finn. I would like to get a Buck 102 to go with them one of these days. I have never been all that enamored of the black phenolic handles. LL Bean company sells a Woodsman that Buck makes for them with a stacked leather handle. The cocabola Woodsman has a brass pomel and guard, which is OK, but I prefer a nickel silver or polished aluminum version. I wish they would make the cocabola handled model with the silver trim instead of the brass. I corrode ever piece of brass that I touch into a green mess, so I've never been happy with brass bolsters or guards or pommels. Buck made a Limited Edition 802 with a S30V blade and walnut handle. I bought the 805 with the 5'' trailing point blade, and never did like it very much. I tried it several times on squirrels and rabbits, and found the 5'' blade length and upturned point miserable to use on small animals. If I had found an 802 instead with it's more sensibly sized blade, I would still be using it. I wish that Buck would make a 102 of 154CM and handle it with stag, I would get one immediately. Sharpen once and forget about it for a very long time. The Woodsman is neat little knife. :thumbup: