Opinions on custom order

[falar]

After using my ASTK, CAK, and 20" Siru I've made a few observations.

1. Suprisingly, though the Siru is the more elegant blade, it is very front heavy
2. In order of "balance" weight-wise, I would rank them in order of most balanced, to least balanced as ASTK, CAK, 20" Siru
3. To my suprise then the "choppers" were more balanced than the "fighting knife"


Now, my ASTK is a villager model and will be my new camping/hunting/hiking knife. It will see the most use, and to me is more of a tool than a weapon (though I'm sure it would be more than formidable) and my Siru is what I keep handy at night in case of unwanted guests. I find the 20" length to be almost short swordish, and I sure would not want to be on the other end of it. However, I think the balance could be improved by ordering one with a Chiruwa style tang/handle and am contemplating ordering 18,20,25 inch sirus all Chiruwa style in an efffort to find what would suit me best as more of a "defensive" Khukuri. I was even thinking the 25 inch would probably be served well with some sort of guard/hilt also because I could really see your hand coming lose if you struck something really hard and it stopped the blade. What do you fine folks think of my idea? Am I way off here?

 

[sweetcostarica]

First, falar I want to say that unless you are trained and know what you're doing with a Kukri it is best to use your Kukri for bushcraft and only use it in self defense as a last result.


Most popular weight for a combat Kukri with Gurkhas:
Around 570 grams (20 ounces). Heavier Kukris because of slower use and recovery give the advantage to the attacker.

Normal blade length for a combat Kukri that I've seen used in fighting:
Somewhere between 32 cm (12. in) and 35 cm (13.6 in).


Most common WW2 Gurkha strike: (and earlier, thanks Wayne)
"The Gurkha generally strikes upwards with the kukri, possibly in order to avoid wounding himself should his blow fail, and possibly because an upward cut is just the one that can be least guarded against. When they come near the enemy they crouch close to the ground, dive under the bayonets, strike upward ripping the foe open with a single blow" (forgot the source of this true quote).

Guards on Kukris:
I don't know why but all Kukris that I've seen Gurkha's use have no guard. I think they know something we don't so I'll recommend not using a Kukri with a guard on it.

The above is from my research on this topic. Bando Combat Kukri training is another way to learn how to use a Kukri in combat but I have no experience with it so take this advice with caution.

Hope this helps.

 

[falar]

I ordered them already. I didn't even inquire about a guard and the only reason I thought abotu one was for when thrusting.

I don't plan on going around looking for trouble with a huge knife/shortsword, but if I am going to have them around the house I am damn sure going to start learning how to use them.

I want to order some Tameshigiri mats too and see how the bigger ones fare.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

I think it can really depend on which one you get. My ATSK is really thick, and balance is very forward, whereas the lighter GS and siru are very quick. I still like the UF. In my estimation, the heavier ones are often best in a counter type defense. For instance, v step back and to the side as your opponent strikes, and strike for their forearms, not for the torso. Take the weapon arm and the fight is over.

 

[kronckew]

there is a certain chilly steel company that makes a KLO (khukuri like object) and they have a video of a rather portly (i should talk!) gentlemen thrusting it through a pigs carcass, with ribs and all, also thru heavy shipping tubes. no guard, no hand slip, no problem.

if you want to be sure, the off hand is used on the butt-plate to add to the thrust and ensure the hands don't slip.

the vid also shows it being used for tamishigiri matt cutting, and bamboo as well as 15x 1" hemp ropes at one blow. a good advert for khukuris in general, as their vaunted special steel is not so special, it's the shape that does most of the work, as long as you get it sharp enough. i'd like to see some of those tests done with a proper HI khukuri...

 

[sweetcostarica]

I don't plan on going around looking for trouble with a huge knife/shortsword, but if I am going to have them around the house I am damn sure going to start learning how to use them.

That is great. Hope I wasn't too preachy with my 1st sentence disclaimer.

The good thing about learning to use the Kukri is that its mostly safety related. I heard on another forum that there really isn't any traditional formalized training. You learn a few techniques/skills from a veteran/instructor and the rest is all hands on in combat.


Also, good idea about using Tameshigiri mats. They are great for practice.

 

[alexs]

"chilly" steel company LOL! A frigid combo of mostly carbon and iron

there is a certain chilly steel company that makes a KLO (khukuri like object) and they have a video of a rather portly (i should talk!) gentlemen thrusting it through a pigs carcass, with ribs and all, also thru heavy shipping tubes. no guard, no hand slip, no problem.

if you want to be sure, the off hand is used on the butt-plate to add to the thrust and ensure the hands don't slip.

the vid also shows it being used for tamishigiri matt cutting, and bamboo as well as 15x 1" hemp ropes at one blow. a good advert for khukuris in general, as their vaunted special steel is not so special, it's the shape that does most of the work, as long as you get it sharp enough. i'd like to see some of those tests done with a proper HI khukuri...

 

[alexs]

I would hazard a guess that anyone with quality and lengthy training in escrima/kali/krabi krabong/etc. would pick up khukuri fighting pretty quickly (in martial-art years) after exercising extreme caution due to the added weight and the forward bend of the blade affecting the POB. After all, once you get the timing and distance right in sparring fights, they can be translated to most any weapon with dedication and patience.

That is great. Hope I wasn't too preachy with my 1st sentence disclaimer.

The good thing about learning to use the Kukri is that its mostly safety related. I heard on another forum that there really isn't any traditional formalized training. You learn a few techniques/skills from a veteran/instructor and the rest is all hands on in combat.

View attachment 292116
Also, good idea about using Tameshigiri mats. They are great for practice.

 

[Abaniko]

For instance, v step back and to the side as your opponent strikes, and strike for their forearms, not for the torso. Take the weapon arm and the fight is over.

"Defanging the Snake"

Always remember, More mass = more inertia. The heavier blades are harder to recover after a strike. This can critical. Our Tico is right, Training is FAR, FAR more important factor than what kind of Kukhri you choose.
"Most common WW2 Gurkha strike:
"The Gurkha generally strikes upwards with the kukri, possibly in order to avoid wounding himself should his blow fail, and possibly because an upward cut is just the one that can be least guarded against. When they come near the enemy they crouch close to the ground, dive under the bayonets, strike upward ripping the foe open with a single blow""---Love it

 

[sweetcostarica]

I agree with you about the training being more important than the tool. Within reason any knife will work. Some more than others.
Also, I should add that mental conditioning should be seriously considered just like CCW (concealed carry) of a firearm. Can I actually use this weapon in self defense. Do I have the will to fight or would I run away? Fighting Spirit seems to be something that Gurkhas have more than others (see video below).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNHRUfgbLhI&feature=related
So it's: First the man, Second the training, and Last the tool in order of importance in combat survival or self defense. That makes sense to me :thumbup:.

 

[kronckew]

...
"The Gurkha generally strikes upwards with the kukri, possibly in order to avoid wounding himself ...(forgot the source of this true quote).
...

the original: slightly before ww2

_____________________________
The Gurkha is worthy of notice, if only for the remarkable weapon which they use in preference to any other. It is called the 'Kukri' and is of a very peculiar shape.

...In the hands of an experienced wielder this knife is about as formidable a weapon as can be conceived. Like all really good weapons, its efficiency depends much more upon the skill than the strength of the wielder, and thus it happens that the little Gurkha, a mere boy in point of stature, will cut to pieces a gigantic adversary who does not understand his mode of onset. The Gurkha generally strikes upwards with the kukri, possibly in order to avoid wounding himself should his blow fail, and possibly because an upward cut is just the one that can be least guarded against.

When we were engaged in the many wars in India the Gurkha proved themselves our most formidable enemies, as since they have proved themselves most invaluable allies. Brave as lions, active as monkeys, and fierce as tigers, the lithe wiry little men came leaping over the ground to the attack, moving so quickly, and keeping so far apart from each other, that musketry was no use against them. When they came near the soldiers, they suddenly crouched to the ground, dived under the bayonets, struck upwards at the men with their kukris, ripping them open with a single blow, and then, after having done all the mischief in their power, darting off as rapidly as they had come. Until our men learned this mode of attack, they were greatly discomfited by their little opponents, who got under their weapons, cutting or slashing with knives as sharp as razors, and often escaping unhurt from the midst of bayonets. They would also dash under the bellies of the officers' horses, rip them open with one blow of the kukri, and aim another at the leg of the officer as he and his horse fell together.

Reverend Wood, 'Travels in India and Nepal' 1896
_____________________________

another favourite quote relates to a rebellion in brunei while the sultan was out of the country. his gurkha bodyguard took care of it in short order. the most skillful warrior is the one who wins the war without ever using his weapon:
_____________________________
Landing at Brunei airport, (the Gurkhas) double-timed into Bruneitown (Bandar Seri Begawan) and soon came in view of the rioters. Forming a thin khaki line across the lone main street, they unsheathed their kukris and stood facing the howling mob. Looking at that silent row of men, their knives sparkling in the sun, the insurgents had some fast second thoughts and slowly began to disband. The troops smartly about-faced, trotted back to the airfield, and flew home to Kuching. Elapsed time to crush a rebellion: under two hours?

Sid Latham, 'Knives and Knifemakers' 1974, ISBN: 0876911092
_____________________________

 

[sweetcostarica]

Nice job finding that quote Wayne! Thanks.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

That story about the rebellion is great. Thanks for sharing.

 

[MagenDavid]

I've heard it posited that what makes the Gurkhas so dangerous with the khukuri is the constant use of it as a domestic tool. I might compare it to a friend of mine who works on railroads. He can hit the head of the spike with a railroad hammer almost instinctively from so many repetitions of swinging it, despite the head of the hammer and the head of the spike being the same size. Likewise, the tool you use to process firewood, process animals, prepare dinner, shape wood, and dig holes in a pinch becomes an extension of your arm.

 

[sweetcostarica]

"Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruning hooks into spears. Let the weak say, 'I am strong.'" Joel 3:10
Most weapons of war are converted farm tools and in the past when huge numbers of people were farmers they pretty much knew how to use that tool for anything including war.

Like you were saying MagenDavid:
"Likewise, the tool you use to process firewood, process animals, prepare dinner, shape wood, and dig holes in a pinch becomes an extension of your arm." You bet Nepalis know their national weapon well. But we modern city folk work 9 to 5 and have other hobbies or children to bond with. We need a lot more help.

 

[kronckew]

warning! - thread veer in progress.

sweetcostarica, even the dayak headhunters of borneo use mobile (cell) phones!
View attachment 292414

end of thread veer - we now return
you to your regularly scheduled thread topic

 

[jdk1]

I've heard it posited that what makes the Gurkhas so dangerous with the khukuri is the constant use of it as a domestic tool.... Likewise, the tool you use to process firewood, process animals, prepare dinner, shape wood, and dig holes in a pinch becomes an extension of your arm.

I am proof of the validity of this theory. My deftness with the common fork is renowned in my home. And with a fork in the right and a tortilla in the left (when my wife's not looking), I can make a plate so clean it could go back into the cabinet

I know this thread has changed course slightly, but I've enjoyed it's great historical content. Thanks guys.

 

[sweetcostarica]

sweetcostarica, even the dayak headhunters of borneo use mobile (cell) phones!
View attachment 292414

Copy that veer. Maybe I should change the we in my statement: "But we modern city folk" and make it to include to global community. Because your right "civilization" is changing every culture. As noted above cell phones are replacing yelling, traditional dress is being replaced by blue jeans, Kamis are getting jobs in the big city (thereby losing their skills), and Pat Boone is wearing leather.
If this keeps up I'm going to renounce my world citizenship and move to Mars .

 

[sweetcostarica]

I am proof of the validity of this theory. My deftness with the common fork is renowned in my home.

I had my suspicions about you jdk1 for a while. Now I know through your words and skill, you ARE The Blue Raja!

 

[falar]

That is great. Hope I wasn't too preachy with my 1st sentence disclaimer.

The good thing about learning to use the Kukri is that its mostly safety related. I heard on another forum that there really isn't any traditional formalized training. You learn a few techniques/skills from a veteran/instructor and the rest is all hands on in combat.

View attachment 292116
Also, good idea about using Tameshigiri mats. They are great for practice.

Another point to consider is that I am new to California, and am lucky enough to live in one of the counties that will issue CWL. However, I'm a bit of a dual resident at the moment (until my home in Texas sells, my guns will remain there to stay legal with the weird laws here) and it will be a long time before I get that sorted out. I enjoy the outdoors and when I go camping/hiking until then my only means of defense will be my Khukuri and contrary to what many think, plenty of people have been attacked out in the middle of nowhere.