Opinions on Mad Dog Shrike...

Thank you Mike. You made the point I was trying to make without my having to go over "there" yet again to quote him. Apparently you saw the same contradiction between word and deed that I saw.

Now that the air is cleared, CH--I am sorry for labeling you a troller. I only went by what you had said and did in two different places at relatively the same time. Now that you have explained what you meant I'm cool with your story.

Sometimes I let my thoughts about MD cloud my usually more civil judgment. Duh!

If you are happy throwing your money at him that's fine by me, you supposedly earned it I hope. Do what you want.

I will now attempt to let at least another week go by without mentioning "you know who" out of respect for Mr. Turber and his forum. Hopefully all of this poisonous hostility will dilute itself to its formerly less lethal intensity.

Seems I have gotten a little out of hand lately. Sorry, I should know better at my age.

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Never confuse movement with action.

Ernest Hemingway
 
[And naturally, OD posts an apology right as I'm typing this up. Figures.... late for the party again.]

Oregon Duck, no offense guy, but I think you were out of line here.

Regardless of what you think his intents were, the best way to have handled this would have been to honestly answer the question. Acting like this just brings us down to...

...well, a level we don't want to be at.

Let's not do this again, ok? We want to be the ones people point to and say, "This is how it should be done!" instead of "Look how they treat people!"

Let's treat all request for information for what they are, and act appropriately. You can "read into it" all you want, but until it's made more clear, let's take it at face value.

[This is a good thing for everyone to do, so please don't think I'm singling OD out...]

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here


[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 19 November 1999).]
 
...against an attacker: you may dig as long as you can do it fast(don´t forget to trap the arm) and pound on not like a horse but like a panther on an elephant´s back. Shrike will minimize tremendously the problem that ghostsix reports and that of a blade hanging/jammed between ribs...
 
crowinghorse,

What other knives have you looked at in the same category?

------------------
"A knifeless man is a lifeless man"
-Nordic proverb
 
Hey Spark,

I do not feel singled out, only like I should get more sleep sometimes before I conclude about what is really going on with some people.

Won't happen again any time soon,

OD

------------------
Never confuse movement with action.

Ernest Hemingway

[This message has been edited by Oregon Duck (edited 19 November 1999).]
 
Hey Spark,

I do not feel singled out, only like I should get more sleep sometimes before I conclude about what is really going on with some people.

Won't happen again any time soon,

OD

There--twice as apologetic for some undiscernable reason!

------------------
Never confuse movement with action.

Ernest Hemingway

[This message has been edited by Oregon Duck (edited 19 November 1999).]
 
My father owns a Cold Steel 7.5" San Mai tanto and really likes it. Doesn't do much with it but it can cut meat well...
I looked at a Randall (either #16/14/or possibly a #1 I believe)
I have on order an ATAK Thing, which is a Mad Dog Wild Thing on steroids. It is 7" long with a 5" sharpened false edge clip point. Can't wait to handle it...
Horse
 
Whoa! I can't believe this thread....

I think it is a great idea to ask about a knife in a general forum and not just in the maker's forum. The people who hang out in a maker's forum are people who love that maker's knives (and occasionally one or two who hate that maker so much they're willing to invest their time in flaming them on their own forum). If you post a question in any of the makers' forums about one of their knives you'll get replies mainly comparing it to other knives made by that maker. Part of that is just a sense of courtesy -- for instance, if I see a post in the Spyderco forum asking about one of their knives my reply is not going to suggest you should get a similar model made by Benchmade instead, just out of a sense of courtesy toward Spyderco -- I think most of us feel going on a maker's forum and recommending a competitor's knife wouldn't be courteous. Besides, I would assume the member has already decided to buy one of that maker's knives and is only considering which one to buy now, so that's the question I answer.

If this same question were posted on the MDK forum I would interpret it as asking whether he'd be better off with a Shrike or a Mini Shrike or a Voodoo Child (all very similar knives), and I would also consider whether he might not really know what kind of knife he wants, in which case he might be better off for his purposes with something quite different -- but I would primarily consider other MDKs.

Now to answer the question:

The Shrike is a modified dagger -- not symmetrical like a true dagger; instead it has more belly on the forward edge than on the rear so it's more versatile than a conventional dagger. It's still a knife designed purely as a weapon, but as a more versatile weapon, better adapted to a style that includes cutting as well as thrusting than a true dagger.

Like all MDKs it is differentially tempered, and the back edge is spring tempered like the spine and not as hard as the front edge. It's amply hard enough for use as a weapon but if you use the back edge of any MDK for utility purposes you'll notice it needs sharpening more frequently.

As you may have noticed, there is some question whether the edges of MDKs might be tempered too brittle for heavy utility such as chopping hardwood, or some of them might be. That question is irrelevant to the Shrike; no one would use the Shrike for a heavy utility knife anyway -- that's not what it's designed for.

The famous Mad Dog ergonomics really come into play with a pure weapon like the Shrike. It feels alive in the hand, flows naturally without effort, grip changes with ease. If you're looking for a pure weapon well adapted to a fluid style using both thrusting and cutting with an emphasis on thrusting, the Shrike is just what you're looking for. There are similar Mad Dog models to consider; the main difference is length.

If you have any intention of using the knife for other purposes than defense, look at single-edged models and those with a shorter sharpened clip so you can brace with your thumb on the spine -- a full double edge is a nuisance for many purposes. If you only want to carry one knife the Shrike is probably not what you're looking for. It's a great choice for people who are looking for a single-purpose no-compromise weapon and are willing to carry a second knife for utility purposes.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
Cougar; I enter this thread with trepidation, given the vitriolic reception that a simple request for information about a knife was given.

However, I feel I should keep things correct. No Mad Dog knife with a second edge is differentially tempered. Whether the edge is a partial (false) edge, or nearly full length. There are, IIRC, two reasons for this: first, the second edge needs to be as hard as the primary edge, and second, the presence of a thinner spine area (the second edge) makes the knife more flexible.

Hope this helps, Walt
 
Oregon Duck, why are you criticizing crowinghorse for asking a question? Even if he likes Mad Dog knives he's entitled to get other opinions that will either validate, disprove or supplement his beliefs.

I like Mad Dog knives and own a few and would like to have the right to ask what others think about them even if I pretty much have made up my mind that I like them. It's always great to get new thoughts and opinions. In fact, one may learn something about a knife and its features that previously were not so clear.

You seem to have a problem with Mad Dog and have trouble accepting that others may like him. Why did you have to jump on crowinghorse? Just let it slide. If he is trolling then it will become clear. Instead you just made a fool out of yourself.

Jason
 
That's not what Mad Dog says, Walt. He says he tempers his double-edged knives the same as the single-edged ones and doesn't make any steel knives without differential temper. He has posted that more than once.

I agree that's the way it should be done -- edge-holding is not a consideration in fighting; if you have an unlimited number of attackers you will drop from exhaustion before a spring-tempered edge gets too dull.

A spring temper is not that soft, by the way -- you can make a knife out of a flat spring without re-heat-treating it and it'll hold an edge fairly well -- many people have done it. It's not ideal for edge-holding but it's acceptable. Spring-tempered steel will hold an edge better than 420-J2.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
Coug; I must be getting 'old-timer's disease.' I swear that I spoke with Kevin on this subject and he told me that double edged knives were not differentially tempered.

I just got off the phone with him, and I remembered incorrectly. You are correct, Coug, ALL MD's are 'selectively tempered,' the term Kevin prefers to use. You are right, the secondary edge is softer, and has a different bevel than the primary edge.

I suppose my confusion came from the fact that the 'A' series SEAL ATAK's, which had a sharp false edge had file work on the back, while current ATAK's don't. I thought this was because the spine of the SEAL ATAK needed flexibility, as it wasn't as soft as current ATAK's. It turns out that this was done for a different reason. The sharpened false edge made the tip of the knife more flexible, and thus the spine needed to be more flexible, so that the flex characteristics of the blade remained constant. Current ATAK's, lacking the sharpened false edge, have uniform flexibility without having to resort to file work.

Thanks for setting me straight. Walt
 
I sure like the looks of the Shrike.
However, I would like to see one without the chrome plating and, given the benchmade nature of them, selling for around $100, like the knives John Greco makes.
For the kind of money MD charges, I could get a real custom knife from Gene Osborn.

I read a lot of knife prejudice here that seems connected to the style of use more than the purpose.
I don't believe in knife duels and so a bowie type slasher makes no sense to me.
I think a modified dagger, such as the Shrike, with enough sweep to "tenderize" a determined offense/defense prior to the fight-ending thrust, makes more sense for self defense, as well as for assassination, than the general utility/comabt knife with a pronounced skinner belly.
I have cute little folders for utility and a back-packer's folding saw for real wood cutting.

A Shrike looks like it does what it does.
It cuts, impales and feels good in the hand.
Now, let's get rid of the chrome and the big price tag.

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Luke 22:36, John 18:6-11, Freedom

 
You can buy any Mad Dog knife without the hard chrome for the same price.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
Thanks Jason but no one asked you to reopen the matter. If it is not obvious why I questioned CH there's no helping you.

If you haven't bothered to read the entire thread, I will reiterate to you specifically that my initial suspicions about the poster were based on what I had read him saying in another forum. Mike Turber quoted the very passage which made me suspicious.

Was it wrong to question CH? No. The only impropriety on my part was that of being too caustic. I woke up grumpy this morning. __it happens.

If you have trouble accepting my apology for questioning CH's motives early on in this thread then you are being as problematic as I was earlier.

I've dropped it and apologized. My suggestion is that you drop it too. Its over and you were merely late to the fracas, why try and reopen it after the matter is closed?

I would just hate to feel compelled to comment on how you waste your time and money since I am still in a relatively foul mood today.

Just let it alone. I will no longer be commenting on overpriced and brittle cutlery anyhow. I made a promise to myself to quit getting figurative fleas that make me want to scratch so vigorously.

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Never confuse movement with action.

Ernest Hemingway

[This message has been edited by Oregon Duck (edited 19 November 1999).]
 
crowinghorse,

Like OD I was suspicious of your post here. Based upon your previous posts here and at TF. Now I see in the Knives for sale forum you posted the following below just 12 minutes before this one.

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/000922.html

I ordered one because they look to be one helluva fine fighter. I will be in the military soon and though this to be the next best thing to an ATAK...I already have one of those...I also have a Shrike on order...I can't wait...
Horse
Click to expand...
Emphasis is mine. You say you have a Shrike on order and now you want opinions as though you're considering one in the future. Members here want to help but don't want to start another fight. Please tell me what your intentions are.

------------------
"A knifeless man is a lifeless man"
-Nordic proverb


[This message has been edited by David Williams (edited 19 November 1999).]
 
If everyone will reread this post, it was meant as a question: What is your opinion on the Shrike? I DO have one on order and I am going to very happy when it comes. I was considering changing my order (I have done so 3 time already and Earl Stewart and Mad Dog have been more than tolerant of my indecision...) I have decided to keep the Shrike. Even if I could get a different blade for a cheaper price, I like the way the Shrike looks and especially the handle and the way it "lives" in your hands. I own an ATAK already and have an ATAK Thing coming to me next week.
My original post was meant to get people to respond to my question, not the knife brand. Opps...too late. Oregan Duck understands that I am not here to flame anyone or any knife brand and especially any forum member. I am here to learn and appriciate this "rich" knife culture. I only wanted "honest" opinions of the knife. If I post that I ALREADY own one or have on order, people say "Bad choice, you could have gotten XXXXXX for a better price and XXXX is a better knife." I did not want that. If you do have recommendations thanks, if you want to flame, please leave and go your own sad way...
Horse


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warning: this is not a flame. I am here to learn and seek out knowledge and truth. wheather I will find it or not is debatable...
 
Sheesh -- what is all this suspicion?????

Like every other maker with some reputation, MD has a backorder list years long, and people who order his knives have plenty of time to change their minds. It's not at all uncommon for people to order knives and then post asking about them. (I have seen many posts from people who've ordered a factory knife and expect it to arrive within days and are asking if the knife is any good. I personally consider that somewhat abusive of return priviledges, but people do it all the time. Some people even order three different brands intending to keep whichever they like the best and send the other two back -- I consider that unethical, but it's legal and some people do it.)

Where did the idea that this thread might have been started to provoke us to flame Mad Dog knives and make ourselves look ridiculous come from? I've been flaming all over the place without any trolls to provoke me, and if *I* don't look ridiculous.... Where's the need for provocation? Why would anyone bother???
smile.gif


People order handmade knives with a long waiting list and then have second thoughts and come on the forums asking if that was a good idea all the time. There must several posts like that every week. Sometimes they cancel their orders and very often they change their orders to a different design from the same maker.

With the current controversy going on some of us might think anyone with an MDK on order who didn't wonder a little must have a hole in his cistern....

That's the question I answered in my post -- the issue of possible edge brittleness is irrelevant to the Shrike.

-Wholly Brother Cougar, Speaker to the Cistern :{)
 
Whoa...like Walt, I enter with some trepidation only because I own a Shrike and a somewhat "custom" one that former KFC'ers will remember I put right through my finger in a demonstration... I have such finesse...

Anyway, it's a fabulous knife, the Shrike, and Kevin made it for me custom without the hard chrome, but rather put a Teflon coating on the uncoated steel surface. It is <u>very</u> nice. No...like Strider said I wouldn't dig with it at all..and agree completely with Cougar on his wonderful and accurate discription of this knife... It is VERY sexy, and has a hint of a recurve in it, though I think it's just the line of the grind. It may recurve a HINT along the spine (or it's an optical illusion)...and the choil is a flat, straight, one-incher.

Very nice stuff...and light in the hand, moves FAST. It pierces almost anything, (as would a good icepick
smile.gif
) and I believe it has some serious merit as a light fighter beyond the "stabber" that it is known for. Some say it's the ultimate dagger...it has my vote there for sure...but I'm biased.

Just thought someone would like to hear from someone who has one...that's all.

Cheers,

Ty
 
Geez, some of you guys actually have me wanting a Shrike, almost.
I think that OD had a good suggestion. Get a good icepick for thrusting. It may not have the versatility of being able to cut but it will do what it was desiged for. I learned that 8 years ago from a retired SF Captain. Of course, the Shrike wasn't around when he served.
 
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