Opinions or Advice on Survival Camps

[dougo83]

Ok...I am majoring to work in the Lutheran Church Missuori Synod as a youth pastor and am looking to start a Biblically founded survival camp. I want something harder than your basic weekend church camp. I am looking for suggestions of survival centers, similar to BOSS in Utah to attend and possibly use some of their ideas, with permission of course, as the framework for my idea. Any help or links would be greatly appreciated...

PeACE

 

[tomsuper]

what do you mean? majoring to work in the lutheran church missuori synod?

 

[dougo83]

what do you mean? majoring to work in the lutheran church missuori synod?

I'm confused...I said majoring to work in the LCMS as a youth pastor. What do you mean?

 

[riddleofsteel]

He is going to be a youth pastor dude.

 

[dougo83]

Ok...I am going to be a youth pastor. The particular church body is the LCMS. However, that is far from the point of the OP. Could we please get nearer to it? I am looking for help from probably the best pool of hikers/outdoorspeople I can think of...


As a post-script...I will not debate religion on here with any of you. In person, sure, but this is not the point of this thread or forum...

 

[Diomedes Industries]

Dang! I was going to PROOVE God's non-existence too!

TF

 

[XMP]

Check out http://www.karamat.com/courses.html One other thing to consider is that schools tend to specialize in a certain sort of habitat (jungle, mountain, desert), so the answer to your question might depend upon where you want to locate.


[BTW I'm a professor with a number of youth ministry majors as advisees; where are you going to school. Email/pm me if you don't want your thread to drift].

 

[mkhop]

Doug there is a guy on here named Pict and he is a Minister and misionary working in Brazil, he also has a passion for woodcraft. He just might be able to steer you in the right direction.
I don't debate religion either, I already beleive what I beleive and all that is left is to spread the word.

 

[Trent Rock]

all that is left is to spread the word

Is there a do not spread the word list I can get on??

Biblically founded survival camp

Interesting
*********************************************

Our off campus discipleship program is designed for
adult males and teenage guys age 16 or older. The trips
are based on Proverbs 27:17 “Iron Sharpeneth Iron…”
The Biblical principle of men strengthening each other’s
walk with Christ is put to practice during these trips.
Men are challenged physically, mentally, and spiritually
as they journey through the wilderness and study God’s
Word together

Survival Camp activities will include

* Chapel teaching and worship
* Personal devotional time
* Archery
* Outdoor cooking
* GPS/Orienteering
* Some Hiking
* Flying Squirrel
* Swimming
* Low ropes challenge course
* Lots of Campfires

http://campk.cpci.org/summer08/sc2008.htm

http://www.thewildernesscamp.com/TeenSurvivalWeek.htm

 

[pict]

Dougo83,

I can PM you some links that I've found later today. I'm basically doing exactly what you describe here in Brazil. I wouldn't worry about debating your faith here. The board has a good rep for respecting everyones opinion in such matters. We are here to talk wilderness survival and bushcraft and you will find everyone here from Baptist Missionaries (me) to hardcore athiests. That´s the way the world is.

If you want to you can check out my blog, I talk some about wilderness ministry there. My youtube channel is dedicated to wilderness survival and bushcraft and has some clips of the course I've been running here in Brazil.

I'll save you the trouble of looking for books out there on wilderness ministy, there aren't any. I can put you in touch with people who can help. I will say that there is no better classroom than the bush. Mac

 

[Ravaillac]

I am looking for suggestions of survival centers, similar to BOSS in Utah to attend and possibly use some of their ideas, with permission of course, as the framework for my idea. Any help or links would be greatly appreciated...

I'm not sure what kind of youth (age, origin, familiarity with the outdoors...) you intend to work with but "hardcore" survival training (BOSS style) might not be the best suited for young people (or would require significant adaptation).
Maybe you should have a look at boy scouts stuff (agreed that boy scout stuff ranges from "almost army" to walk in the park), because outdoor education for young people is what boy scouts are about.
Plus boy scouts probably wouldn't mind you borrowing ideas from them.
From that basis you may add some more hardcore survival stuff if you want.

 

[Smash05]

All I will say is that make sure you vet any information you receive with other available information. I have seen so-called survival camps that are a bit too much on the spiritual side, and emphasize otherwise bad habits or survival technique. I liked the idea of borrowing from the Boy Scouts, and maybe look into some of the Military SERE programs for ideas. I would then add whatever spiritual components that you need.

 

[pict]

I was going to send this in a PM but apparently I can't so I'll just post it here for anyone else interested in using the wilderness in a ministry context.

Here are a few of the resources that have helped me a lot in developing my own course. The wilderness survival stuff I already had, you can get that kind of training just about anywhere but I highly recommend getting it on your own in the area you will be taking your groups. The kind of thing you will be doing with them takes local knowledge more than anything. I take my groups out to the same area and now know it like the back of my hand. It helps greatly if you aren’t in the process of discovering but rather leading them to discover.

In terms of the ministry aspect here are a few links that helped me. The first is a links page with a few really good articles on wilderness ministry and a downloadable PDF of a doctoral dissertation on the subject. It is really good stuff.

Wilderness Ministry Resources Page

The second link is a page from my blog in which I’m thanking the guys who helped me out. I have links to their sites. I took a canoe trip with Pilgrimage and it was fantastic. Just follow the links and you will find some resources.

Visions of a Deeper Wilderness Ministry

This third one is the only group I was able to find that does survival training with a Christian perspective. They are willing to travel and do a trip in your area. I have had some limited e-mail exchanges with them, good people.

Wilderness Way Adventures

Christian Adventure Association

Climbing for Christ

Pilgrimage Immersed Learning

I'm hoping to take a wilderness leadership trip with Pilgrimage next spring. Hope this helps. If you discover any good resources let me know.

Mac

 

[tonym]

I am going to Marty Simons place this summer. As anyone who ever met Marty or his head instructor Kevin Estela (they post alot of helpful info on this forum)knows it will be hard to find a better place to learn wilderness skills than theirs. Check out his website. http://www.weteachu.com/
Join me there, I don't think you will regret it.

 

[tonym]

I was looking into BOSS as well, but it seams more of a physical push your self to the limits test than a school to learn skills. Just my .02

 

[dougo83]

I was looking into BOSS as well, but it seams more of a physical push your self to the limits test than a school to learn skills. Just my .02

Tony...
That is very true of their field course. My goal is to teach self/Spiritual reliance through it all. I realize BOSS is a harsh program. My intent was to use it as a framework and possibly as a training regimen for those who will potentially lead with me. I feel that the leaders should be honed to a finer edge than the participants.


Trent...
Sure, I will not argue religion with you, nor will I try to force it down your throat. I will say that I believe that Jesus Christ died and rose for my salvation and eternal life. You do not have to agree with me. That is the problem many Christians make. We are just here to show others what we believe, harder than it sounds actually. Anyway, Landover Baptist is the reason I do not necessarily agree with the 'freedom' to just let anyone start a Baptist church. Those guys are off their rocker and on the same level as the guys who protest troop funerals...


mkhop...
Thanks...I could not remember pict's name and was hoping he would chime in...and he did...

pict....
osgood.douglas@gmail.com
I will be looking in-depth into what you posted over the next few weeks. Thank you.

Rav...
I am looking to balance the BOSS-esque training with the limp-wristed BSA/church camp experience. You will be challenged, not tortured. I actually want to work with a slightly older age group (Min 18) We shall see. I am working this out early, it will be at least a year or 3 in the making.

Smash...
That is one of my main concerns. I learned alot of my outdoor skills through family and the hard way. It was my intent to get the perspective of some of our members on where to go. I don't recall if it is in my OP, but I will be attending a few courses to get ideas and talk with the head honchos before starting my own.

 

[dougo83]

Perhaps I should just give ol' Bear Grylls a call??

 

[Quirt]

All I can say is have really good general and professional liability insurance that covers this program specifically and a comprehensive liablity waiver! If you're under the aspecies of the church then great but make sure your insurance carrier and synod attorney understands you're not doing "normal" summer camp activies and will be offering a higher level of "survival" related activies and skills. When you start getting away from a base camp model and begin adding wilderness/survival tasks then expect kids to get seperated from the group, cut/injury themselves, drink and eat things that really mess themselves up even under supervision, and are prone to falls. If your staff isn't really squared away then the next thing you'll know a staffer hands a kid a green stick to roast a hot dog on and the stick is cut from a Cascara or similar tree and then "Houston we've got a problem!"

Honestly you should hire or appoint someone who has director wilderness level experience or experience as a lead instructor or is a wilderness survival guide and/or instructor. This will help mitigate your liablity and it will provide your kids with a real experience that will affect their lives in a positive way! Think about it...if you've been majoring in "something" for the past two to four years to prepare you to become a youth pastor then why do you think a one or two week survival class is going to adequately prepare you to become a wilderness survival instructor?

Also you'll need to have on staff a Wilderness level 1st Responder who has some experience and not some recent graduate of a two week class. You should invest in a Sat phone or other technology and make arrangements with your SAR or Lifeflight in the event of a catastophic emergency. Remember these are people's "kids" who are entrusted in your hands and you need to have a boilerproof action plan if/when something goes terribly wrong.

Also you can't do this alone for a number of reasons so you'll need trained staff to accompany you and they need to have down a rock solid ERP and security plan. Finally background checks on your staff must be SOP.

Going to someone's school and plagerizing their materials and techniques is the easy part...it is all the other stuff that is difficult.

Ah, but what the heck do I know anyway!

 

[dougo83]

Quirt, you are not far off. I appreciate the input.

I actually have been in contact with the Synod and others who are on the legal aspect. I have decided that this will be more than a few years in the future as well.

I am working on the staff and I was asking about the courses as a way to qualify them, I guess. I feel that we should all have some base training that is above what the participants will experience. As someone else kind of said, suvival camps, etc are right on the edge of being a 'real' situation.

Another thing...I have decided that I would probably work at one of the camps in existence for a few years before attempting this. and..I am taking the WFR course whenever the money miracles its way into my bank account

Thanks for the input.

PeACE
Doug

 

[Trent Rock]

Anyway, Landover Baptist is the reason I do not necessarily agree with the 'freedom' to just let anyone start a Baptist church.

LOL
I think it is a SPOOF church/web page
I have to admit
They had me fooled
I thought it was a real church for about 3 minutes

The Landover Baptist Church is a web site that serves as the home of a fictional[1] Baptist church based in the fictional town of Freehold, Iowa. The Landover Baptist site and its associated Landoverbaptist.net forum are a parody of fundamentalist Christianity and the Religious Right in the USA, and of Westboro Baptist Church in particular.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landover_Baptist_Church

I'm sure the kids at your camp will appreciate the outdoor element
Make sure you post some pics for us when U get it up and running

Are you gonna do any knife related stuff?
Maybe sharpening skills?
Or throwing contest?
Whittling?