Opinions requested

Kohai999

Kohai999

Second Degree Cutter
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
12,554
Hey All,

I have a knife on order from a well known maker, another chute knife to be specific.

I want stag, and since Culpepper (Mother of Pearl Company) is doing dyed sambar stag, I ordered some, at a premium, and had it sent directly to the maker. I prefer some of the new dyed stag, I think it looks killer, the handle on Dan Hanson's bowie being an excellent example.

Anyway, the maker said that the stag he was sent would not work. I specified dimensions to MOP Co, and what the material was going on, and one side would have been fine, but the other was over a 1/4" too thin on one side. So back it goes.

The maker has tried to dissuade me from using the dyed stag, saying that he conferred with a real master of knife crafting, and they agree that undyed stag will hold its' value higher and more desireably than dyed stag. I respectfully disagree.

IF you have experience with both materials, please chime in. If you have a feeling based upon experience with one or the other, please chime in. If you have no real experience with either material, please, hold your opinions. I am specifically directing this query to Murry White, Coop, Anthony Lombardo, Danbo, Russ Andrews, PTGDVC, Don Hanson, Joss, Randy and others experienced in the realm of advanced collecting.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Even though I wasn't included along with them "experienced in the realm of advanced collecting" (:D :D :D ), I'll chime in. IMHO, amber stag looks 100X times better than non dyed stag. However, the slabs have to be well matched in figure and color tone, and that's hard to come by.

I have several stag pieces, and I find it rather un-exciting, quite frankly. Amber dyed stag has a depth of color that stag "au naturel" cannot match.
 
I have a couple of knives with dyed stag handles and a few with undyed stag. I haven't attempted to sell any of them so I can't help with how compare as far as holding or increasing their value is concerned. As far as appearance, my preference is for stag that has been treated with potassium permanganate. It makes the stag a dark brown. I am not as fond of natural or amber stag, but I slightly prefer the amber.
 
Kohai999 said:
The maker has tried to dissuade me from using the dyed stag, saying that he conferred with a real master of knife crafting, and they agree that undyed stag will hold its' value higher and more desireably than dyed stag. I respectfully disagree.
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Thank you. I am flattered to be on this list although I do not feel qualified. I don't have much experience with stag to be an expert. Dyed stag is fairly new to me, but nothing I have seen has been anything less than stunning. It's coming to be a good standard finish.

What if no one dyed sheaths? They are natural, and yet are that much more beautiful with some coloring.

The point the maker and master have made maybe somewhat true, but at what point do YOU wish to compromise your enjoyment of a piece over it's perceived long-term value. Therein lies the balance and the question.

You knew that. :D

Coop
 
I have had alot of Stag knives over the years, in fact have a lot now. I like the natural amberSambar first, the natural Sambar with good color and figure, then the dyed Stag. As far as holding value, I don't think it will matter. Like you, Steve, I've got several knives on order and am getting the Cullpepper Stag on most. This is by neccessity, if there were good Sambar I'd never go dyed.

Win
 
I much prefer undyed stag. Having said this, however, you have to realize that most stag IS dyed to some degree. It's just that some stag is properly dyed and some is dyed rather horrifically. I'd have to see the stag in question, in order to render a proper opinion.
 
Bottom Line IMHO what do YOU LIKE. I have heard several times in forums, magazine articles and in person from collectors, know what you like and buy what you like. If you are in it for an investment then you may be dissapointed in the future. Not to say that knives are not a great collectable but I don't know of too many people who get rich off of their collection. So if you like dyed stag then get dyed stag.
just my.02 and some may say thats all its worth...

Chuck
 
Years ago we used to find natural amber stag maybe 5 sets out of 100. All the stag that has come out of india is treated with color (brown or black) before it's shipped because most of it is bleached from the sun and weather when the natives find it. No one knows where or how the so called natural amber color comes from. So natural stag is dyed but just the surface. A couple of years ago I sent Joe Culpepper around 100 sets of scales to dye and he told me he had been dying stag for Bob Loveless for many years. Culpepper recently has started selling dyed stag because the stuff he was getting in was sooooo ugly. I have NO trouble selling knives with the amber dyed stag and actually it will sell it's self. Loveless and Fisk knives with dyed stag seem to hold there value quite well :p
 
I think there is nothing wrong whatsoever with dyed stag (so long as we're talking amber, and not, say, pink ;) ). I absolutely love the look of some of the stuff I have seen of late - such as Hanson's bowie - and can't imagine for a second that the use of such material would have any negative impact on resale value. As the great wise one Danbo points out, most stag is dyed to some extent anyway. Not to mention the fact that any natural material which can be stabilized usually is. If the net result of altering a natural handle material is an improvement of aesthetics or durability, then I have no problem with it. And of course, if natural amber Sambar were available in great quantity, there would simply be no need for dyes.

But then, that's just a rookie opinion. :p :p :)

Roger
 
Steven,

As far as future "value" is concerned, I think that whoever is telling you this fable is making it up as they go along.

Each piece of stag is unique. It is the eye of the beholder/buyer that ultimately determines what is hot and what is not so hot. I own both natural and dyed stag handled knives, and simply view them on their individual merits.

I suppose that in a perfect world, every piece of stag would have such a spectacular shape, figure, and natural glow that trying to enhance it would never cross your mind. Your Russ Andrews piece is a superior example.

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However this dyed piece is pretty hard to top.

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The crucial issue is that this knife is being made for you. You specified dyed stag and went to the trouble of ordering a special set of scales from Culpepper (who is one of the VERY best suppliers). They made an error on the scale dimensions, which I am sure is being fixed.

You should get exactly what you want.

P
 
Although I was not included in the ADVANCED collector list,I'm offering my opinion as well.
I prefer dyed.Looks richer.



Randy(a begining collector)
 
nifrand said:
Although I was not included in the ADVANCED collector list,I'm offering my opinion as well.
I prefer dyed.Looks richer.



Randy(a begining collector)
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ROTFLMAO!!
 
Translation please.

Marcel (an aspiring collector:D )

PS I prefer dyed stag. I handled a Fisk and a Dunn with dyed stag recently and the look great.
 
I would like to chime in as well. I disagree with the real master of crafting. He probally just does not have any dyed stag right now. Course I am just guessing at that. Kinda like guessing the weight on a chicken. If you just look at the face you would guess wrong.
It appears to me that it would depend upon who made it and what the piece itself was as far as holding its value best. I have both regular and dyed stag. I use what goes best with the guard material more often than not when choseing the stag. I think that is what would effect the value more than simply just cause it has dyed or non dyed stag on it.
 
As Danbo sayeth, most stag is dyed, some slightly with potassium permanganate, some with a leather dye, and some with the Amber potion.

My guess is that it doesn't matter.
 
Kohai999 said:
The maker has tried to dissuade me from using the dyed stag, saying that he conferred with a real master of knife crafting, and they agree that undyed stag will hold its' value higher and more desireably than dyed stag.
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An unsubstantiated opinion, that will remain so until the day two identical knives from the same maker, with the exception of dyed and undyed scales are placed in an auction, and are sought after by two collectors with exactly the same wealth and disposable income! :D ..... so that will be never.

I do have a knife by a well known maker that was made only on consecutive Thursdays for 5 months, and Thursday is his favourite day of the week, so it will hold its value better than any of the others! ;)

Stephen
 
I'm obviously not "experienced in the realm of advanced collecting" either, so feel free to ignore me, but I never try to pressure a maker into doing something he doesn't want to do. Even if I disagree with his reasoning.

If the maker is not happy with the knife he's building for me, I won't be happy with it either.
 
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