Opinions requested

STeven,
What the heck! I was just messing around.. thought it sounded like you'd excluded people who weren't "experts".. makes more sense to have the people you want add the opinions if they are recognized experts. Just the way it came across, like no one else's views mattered. I still read a lot of attitude coming across from you, when you don't agree with others. Maybe it's just a personality thing w/ you.

Dyed stag has no class, and reminds me of stained toenails..

DAvid (added the capital "A" :D for my tender bud)
 
I prefer "Staglon" like they used on the old Uncle Henry's. More durable and the color is always consistent.:D
 
I think dying stag, like dying maple or walnut enhances its natural beauty without overpowering the substrate material.

People like wood and stag since every piece is naturally unique with a different grain or inherent pattern.
 
I have an old stag custom made by Olsen.4" blade of 5160.The older it gets and the more I use it the more "amber" it gets.Not dyed but the oils and guts from many elk,deer and antelope it has cleaned and skinned has added to its"ambiance"
I gave it to one of my sons a few years back and he is carrying on with it.

Just a thought.
 
Enough of the dyed /non-dyed question... how about polished or non-polished (no, I'm not talking about ST's manners. :D )


patton_batwing.jpg


-Michael
 
Chefget said:
Enough of the dyed /non-dyed question... how about polished or non-polished (no, I'm not talking about ST's manners. :D )

-Michael
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There's another can of worms. If the maker is willing and the customer likes it to each his own......... my .02

chuck
 
Stupid question maybe....
But would it be possible to dye the handles AFTER you receive the knife?
 
A few points:

I agree with Wulf in his assesment, even though I have no problem with dyed stag. If the maker doesn't like it, and is adamant about it, then it's time to back off or find another maker. 'Adamant' is a key word bearing interpretation.

That said, I have found the most growth when I am challenged. STeven's point is well-founded also, and also bears pressing until 'adamant' is interpreted.

BTW, I just saw a micarta SR Johnson subhilt go for over 5k! Reputation, Reputation, Reputation.

STeven, you are an extremist, and you know it. I am glad this world is not filled with extremists, although it would sure be a dull place if we were all as tender as SharpByCoop. :barf: :grumpy: :D I like your posts best when you back it down a notch and listen.

Coop
 
Kohai999, you say I don't know you, but in reality anyone who follows this forum knows you very well. Over the years I have followed this forum, both as a lurker and as a participant, you have revealed a lot of personal information and your long posts and occasional diatribes have revealed much about your personality. I try to avoid insults, but when you tell me and others not to respond to a thread on Sparks forum (it's not your forum although you and others may think you own it.) Sorry for calling you a fool, but I was pissed at your attitutd (who are you to tell someone not to post) but it seemed to me you may not be as sophisticated in your collecting as you believe.

I know a lot of artists in many media and how they relate to collectors. I own a fair amount of commisioned art, purchased art and art given to me by the artist. You may be suprised to know that many artists won't give a collector the truth, but will give them what they want for a sale. Artists need to put food on the table and they can be as much off a kissass and manipulator as any car salesman. From my experience, you will never get an artists best work by forcing them to do something they don't believe in. They'll do it for the cash, but not for love and the best work is done with love. If you've got money to spend, many artists will tell you exactly what you want to hear and boost your ego like a cheap whore.

You have expressed as your collecting philosophy to obtain two knives that are "masterpieces" from 50 makers. To get a masterpiece you don't tell an artist what to do, you discuss, they give ideas, you give ideas, they give more ideas, you select. That's the method I and others use to get the best work from an artist.
 
I was gonna stay out of this but:
Brownshoe: WRONG!

Kohai asked for something very specific. From very specific folks. He asked relatively politely. He wants very specific information. Why do people get offended at that? Do you think that you need to offer an opinion about everything?

You stuck you nose in and offerred an opinion--that did NOT have the specific information that was requested.

And as for your last post--to my certain knowledge, Kohai interacts just fine with artists-he does not need instruction from you-I could give you a list of the makers with whom I know that he interacts, and they get along just fine.

Steven-I am sorry for my bad tempered interruption to the thread. I have a proposal for you and a number of others--that Chefget just started--why don't y'all post a bunch of pics of knives wwith dyed and nondyed stag--so those of us who are here to actually LEARN something can benefit even more.
 
brownshoe said:
I try to avoid insults, but when you tell me and others not to respond to a thread on Sparks forum (it's not your forum although you and others may think you own it.)
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Diatribe? Call it what you will, but Steven's posts always command attention.

You try to avoid insults, but aren't you the one who started with the insults?

He was looking for educated opinions, I'm not even close to being educated on this subject, so I waited for the responses and kept my mouth closed, like you should have.
 
1. Again, thanks to those who offered comments and suggestions to help me with my decision, the pictures were nice too. I will work on some photos this weekend that show beautiful amber dyed stag, beautiful natural stag, and some relatively boring, but still real nice stag.

2. I can't believe how the thread got off on a tangent. There was not much close to a diatribe, rant or gibberish until I got called names. I'm not playing Mr. Innocent here, but it was not called for in THIS thread.

3. BS, you don't even come close to knowing me. You know an aspect of my personality and interests that I post on the web. It is a small part of me. My wife knows me, some other people know me really well. PTGDVC, Danbo, Randy Morgan, RogerP, StephenF...they all know me to differing degrees. Shaldag and I had a chat over breakfast with JD Smith last year at Blade. He knows some of me, too. I find that incredibly presumptuous that you think that you can know me from what I write on BladeForums. Do you know Steve Dick or Anthony Lombardo from what they write, as well? FWIW, I have made my living on and off for the last 15 years as an artist. I think that I may have some insight as to the personality makeup that many artists have, and share it. What do you do for a living?

4. Jim, you may call me an extremist, if you want, but that is not what those who know me well call me. They call me intense. I think that there is a big difference.

5. Wulf and David, until the name calling started, this could have been a really good, relatively frictionless, learning thread. Think about it.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Interesting discussion,I find that my higher end clients are split almost down the middle.With Loveless Knive's the real purist's want Black and White Stag,my preference is for the Amber stuff.
In the long run time will tell but I do not foresee much difference in value,just who the Maker's are.
Dave Ellis
 
STeven,

As I've mentioned repeatedly - I don't particularly care for stag - period...

However, over the years I have encountered stag pieces that have moved me, and the accompanying pic represents the first stag pieces that I have owned, and they weren't the last.

I'm not really clear on the dyed vs un-dyed, as it was my understanding, as Danbo pointed out, that all stag was to some degree dyed. That said, I think it is simply for me whether I like the pice of stag - in relation to the whole knife!

And I think the end result, the artist's product, is the only way I could appreciate stag... Otherwise, I prefer mammoth ivory!!! :D
 

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Stag ends up being dyed because potassium permanganate is a potent insecticide and stag is soaked in a solution of this chemical to kill any burrowing bugs that could ruin it. Potassium permanganate is also a brown dye.

As far as whether one should ask a maker to use a material when they are reluctant to do so, for me it would depend on why they are reluctant. If it is a steel or an expensive handle material that the maker is not familiar with and not prepared to experiment with, that is one thing. If it is a totally subjective reason, such as the maker having a personal dislike for the look of that material, that is another thing all together. In the end though, it is the maker that has to decide if they will make the knife using the materials you want. If not, a decision has to be made. Do you want the knife made totally to your specification, or do you want a knife from that particular maker.

There is a big difference between a maker refusing to work with certain materials and that maker giving reasons why a certain material might not be the best choice.
 
Interesting posts. Thanks for the information.

This may be off the topic.. As far as knife materials go, how does the price structure of Loveless knives compare in micarta and stag? (secondary value esp.)
David
 
2knife said:
Interesting posts. Thanks for the information.

This may be off the topic.. As far as knife materials go, how does the price structure of Loveless knives compare in micarta and stag? (secondary value esp.)
David
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Micarta is Bob's basic handle material. A drop point hunter can maybe be gotten for $3,000 - $3,500. Stag adds at LEAST $1,000 to the price, if not $1,500.

If is on a Big Bear Subhilt, Stag can add $3,000 to the price, or so I have seen. Dave Ellis might pop in here, if we are lucky, and give his take on the question.
 
With violins, makers will "antique" an instrument to make it look old.. Is this sort of the gist w/ dyed stag? Won't the undyed stuff eventually mellow and darken w/ age to look the same as the amber dyed?

I have seen bug damage on sheephorn, so in regards to that, IF soaking it or dying it protects from bugs.. it has real advantages.

Keith Montgomery,
You posted a picture of your Tai Goo bowie having a red stag butt. Was that dyed red?
David
 
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