Opinions wanted: Upgrade forge or buy kiln?

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Sep 30, 2007
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So I have a nice little venturi-style forge from Ellis Custom Knifeworks, which works fabulously for most things. However, heat treating is a little tricky. I am able to hold around 1500F by choking down the air intake and reducing the gas flow to almost nothing.

I'm starting to yern for something that doesn't require constant babysitting.

My options at this point seem to be:

  • Buy a small kiln for $400 or $450
  • Upgrade to a forced air burner for maybe $150 or so (if I order the parts from Ellis instead of scrounging)
What would you choose?

Also, would a forced air burner be more or less efficient than my venturi burner? I've heard both...

Thanks,
Josh
 
Hey Josh,
I don't know how close you are to me, but if you'd like, you can stop by and try my kiln firsthand and see if it's of any advantage to you.
 
Josh we met at ashokan right? Your the razor maker, no?

Anyways if you have $400 to drop you could make a PID controlled forced air burner. Then you would just set the temp and the forge would stay within a few degrees of what its set at. I don't have my PID set up yet. :(

As for gas efficiency if both burners are properly tuned for the same air to propane ratio then you would burn the same amount of fuel for the same output of BTUs. In my opinion forced air burners are better because for the same price you can put out a lot more BTUs.

-Dan
 
let me know how well that forge holds 400 for 2+ hours for tempering

me i ll stick with the kiln (while i do get a bit of scale when heat treating non foil wrap blades
its not nearly so bad that i would swap to forge for heat treat 9even soakign 52100 for 15 min at 1530f
 
As Dan pointed out, the efficiency is the same for a specific amount of gas and air. Where the forced air burner becomes more efficient is at the extremes. You can not run a venturi burner at a low pressure, or the venturi will collapse.At lower pressures ( ie. lower temperatures), the burner is very inefficient or won't work at all. The same goes for the high end. You can only force so much gas through the orifice, and the atmospheric pressure is a constant factor. A blown burner allows you to deliver any amount of gas you need ( no orifice) and the air supply is variable to match the gas delivery. Adjusting the chamber atmosphere on a venturi burner is difficult, whereas the adjustment on a blown unit is as simple as turning a dial. So a blown burner is far more versatile and more efficient in use.

Adding a PID control will make a forge run in the manner that produces the best results. It greatly reduces overheating,allows a balanced atmosphere at all temps, allows for longer soak times, and provides reproducible results.

I would suggest enhancing the forge first. A HT oven is a great thing ( and necessary for stainless HT), but without a good forge, it may not matter how good the HT oven is.

Another plus is that any upgrading of the forge is transferable. If you build a new forge, the same blower and PID control can be re-used. Many folks forget that there is no need to have multiple PID controllers ( unless you run multiple devices at the same time). All you need is a thermocouple for each device ( with a TC plug on the wires).

The cost to build a blown burner arm for your forge and add a PID control should be less than $150. You may even want to build an entire new forge, for only another $100-150. A 24", two burner forge will do a lot of work . Keep your venturi forge for hammer-ins and demos.

Stacy
 
For heat treating I love having an electric kiln for even heating and temperature control. When I'm doing demos on simple steel like 1084 I can field HT in a gas forge but all it takes is a moment of inattention and I have to start over from full anneal (or worse, restraighten after bumping the back wall etc.) A PID controlled electric kiln is a beautiful thing, and I can neutralize the atmosphere somewhat by putting in a chunk of homemade charcoal with my blade

-Page
 
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