Optics for a M1A Socom

Cobalt said:
they sell pads to mount to the stock to solve that. It is a common problem with M1a's. There is one that screws into the stock and can be adjusted up or down to suit your fit better
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The pads looked strange to me, especially on the SOCOM rifles. The reason why I mentioned the cheek weld issues is just to make sure the OP was aware of them. You don't want to spend the money on a scope then not have it work with the whole system. I agree pads will solve it.

On the photos in the gun magazines, the SOCOM always seems to be pictured with a scope but without any additional pads on the stock and it makes me wonder what they're thinking.
 
I happen to be an Eotech fan myself. I just wish it had an on switch like the Aimpoint. If you are only shooting during the day that Burris looks pretty nice. (never used one myself) If it is for self defense, I don’t see why you would want something that is not illuminated. An Eotech is an awesome sight and with a short barrel and not looking to shoot long distance I don’t see why you would need any magnification. Once you match the sight and gun it’s not that hard to figure out where it’s going to hit at sub 300 ranges. Aim a little high / little low depending on distance. Just get to know the gun / sight. As I said I love my Eotech minor flaws aside. Aimpoints are great as well. If I had the money it would be an ACOG with the MRD on top or offset. If you do decide to go the Aimpoint route I have a never used Comp M2 in the box that I would trade for that Shrike in your sig. It’s been in storage for a while so you might need to toss the batteries but it does have the short mount in the box with it.
 
I like the Trijicon Tripower Reflex sight for a long eye relief sighting system. The reason for choosing this sight for me was the inverted "V" or "chevron" aiming mark. It is the fastest acquisition of any sight I have used and gives a very accurate POA.

Here is a link to the sight picture : http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product2.php?id=TriPower&mid=TriPower

By sighting in the weapon so that the POA is right at the tip of the chevron, this gives the oppertunity to take deliberate precise aim if required and would be the equivalent of a 1 MOA shot. Which is excellent for refelex sights. Most dot systems have to be a balance of having a dot which is easy to pick up quickly ... but then avoid covering too much of the target for any precise use if wanting to engage at distance.

Dot systems that work fast cover off 2.5 MOA or more and the dot system only works by the POA being central to the dot. This is fine for "centre mass" shooting and ideal for burst fire but is not as precise as using the tip of the chevron for accuracy. Plus IMO the chevron actually directs your line of sight a lot easier to enable fast instinctive shooting.

This particular sight also has multiple illumination systems only requiring a battery for back up. As such it is very robust and reliable.

In comparison to scope optics I much prefer reflex sights for long eye relief shooting. The reason is that I do so much shooting with a scope that I am used to mounting the rifle looking for a normal 2 inch eye relief on a scope. Those which provide long eye relief I just find confusing/dangerous on a battle rifle. The Tripower sight which requires double eye operation is far better for me as they mount much further forward than a scope and my mind is not going to confuse the two.

These sights are not cheap but are a lot cheaper than a top end long eye relief scope. Compared to competing options such as an aim point they are always "on" and you don't have to flick a switch. Any switch system for sights intended for combat does'nt rate highly with me. It only needs to be "off" when you need it once ...

I have no problem engaging targets accurately at 300 metres and beyond with this system. Once you know the rifle and the load you are shooting the aim off technique works fine. Because you shoot with both eyes open the elevation hold over does not entirely obscure the target.
 
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Thanks for all the responses everyone. There are more options out there than I had first considered. Guess I've got some more research to do...
 
Tony Nguyen said:
I can personally vouch for vortex scopes. They are crystal clear. Also, I would avoid leupold. Their new scopes have so many parts made over seas that they can no longer hold the "made in America sticker they used to have. I tried one of the new VX-3s and I can honestly say it is one of the worse scopes I have used. The warranty is nice but quality is slipping big time.
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yup the Vortex scopes may just be the best constructed scopes under $800. They did a review on them and how solid the scopes are. My 1-4 is almost as clear as my S&B 1-8.
 
thelastbestplace said:
The pads looked strange to me, especially on the SOCOM rifles. The reason why I mentioned the cheek weld issues is just to make sure the OP was aware of them. You don't want to spend the money on a scope then not have it work with the whole system. I agree pads will solve it.

On the photos in the gun magazines, the SOCOM always seems to be pictured with a scope but without any additional pads on the stock and it makes me wonder what they're thinking.
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I also like the Sage EBR stock for the M1's, which not only solves that problem but it accurizes it like a glass bed
 
One thing I forgot to add as my preference for reflex sights on short carbines as opposed to scopes is the effect of dust and rain on scope optics. A carbine is something you want always to hand and if slung is muzzle "down" and rear eye piece "up". Putting a Butler Creek rear eye piece on the scope on a pistol grip carbine does not enable the qick flip up of a Sniper rifle with a conventional stock. Therefore you suffer dust accumulation on the rear optic lens in S'tan or Iraq and in Europian theatres or the States the rain really does have a bad effect. Most of our guys armed with the SA80 A2 have useless sights on the rifles in very wet UK weather. For these reasons our S/F's always prefer the Dimarco and M203 combination with open sights.

The reflex sights still suffer from water causing "bloom" of the dot and from dust dimming the image ... but the Tripower has the largest illuminated aim mark of any reflex sight I have come across and works the best at negating these hazards.
 
Major Kong said:
Thanks for the links Cobalt, I like the Vortex and it's definitely in my price range, but I wonder if the quoted 4" eye relief will be enough on the M1A.
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If you get the typical offset mount, like the burris mount used on the xtr, you should be ok. It should bring the scope back to the rear of the receiver which should put your eye near the 4 inch point. That plus the play on the mount with the scope should give you enough. Also most tactical shorter range cqb scopes have a short eye relief. Here is the link to the Burris XTR, another great scope and optics planet has it for 35% off. Look at the offset mount. Instead of forward offset as shown, you can do rear offset to get it closer to your eyeball. And even if you buy another scope, you can get that mount for any scope. I think that mount comes in either 30mm or 1 inch.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/burris-1x-4x-24mm-xtr-xtreme-tactical-illuminated-riflescope.html
 
Trijicon Tri-power or Accupoint 4X are BOTH excellent choices, and I have owned and used them extensively.
 
Massad Ayoob did a write up on the Ruger scout rifle, and he spoke very highly of the Bushnell TRS-25. if a red dot was something youd consider check it out. im looking forward to getting the one i ordered for my Mini 14 scout project yesterday. its 3moa and rated for power levels up to the .375 H&H

my Socom will not have an optic mounted, i like the "clean" look, and i shoot well with the factory irons.
 
on my M1A i have a aimpoint compC3 2x with 1 moa dot on a ultimak rail, LOVE this set up, its fast, as a little bit of power for longer shots and is accurate as all heck, sadly my M1A is a standard with a 22inch barrel that i plan to have trimmed down to 18 inches if i can find a gunsmith to do it or a 18 inch installed when i have the money.
 
I have an Eotech on my SOCOM along with a Vortex stock, it is made for the short barrel .308 and has a ranging reticle all the way out to 1200 yards, it's nice.
On my Ruger Scout Rifle I have an Aimpoint M-3, point of aim is great when I pull it up on the swing, it's on my Hog Rifle.

Trijicon's are great...

One to look at and my next scope will be the Leupold Prizmatic, I've played with one of these on my buddies FN SCAR and I really like it.

Been looking at the Scout Scopes but they are pretty large compared to Trijicons and Aimpoint Comp's
If doing it over I would get the Comp 4S instead of the 3

I've have Burris in the past and hated them, lots of haze around the edges and fades out at range.

I have a Tripower, eats batteries and the trijicon has worn out, only has a 10-12 year life.
and 4" is not long relief on a scout rifle.

Scopes I really like are Zeiss, Night Force, Schmidt and Bender, U. S. Optics and my guess is Leica is pretty good too.
 
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Tony Nguyen said:
parts made over seas that they can no longer hold the "made in America sticker they used to have..
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all the best glass in the world is and has been made over seas, Germany and Japan have the best glass made period. there are only three major glass makers in the world that make surgical, sniper optical grade glass. all but the cheapest crap is bid out to the best. one for instance is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schott_AG ask ior (which i like), night force, Zeiss, leica and many others. after the glass is made they will apply the coating and layers you want or you can take it home and coat you own.

don't get me wrong here, i love America and take my hat off to the flag which a lot of other people don't that have no respect and need their teeth knocked out when our national anthem is playing.

as a matter of fact i am now holding an American made glass full of idaho made vodka in one hand and an American made busse knife mounted on a Springfield M1A in the other. but American glass pfttttttt.... doesn't exist.



.
 
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Don't forget Nikon. Also another glass maker is SCHOTT GLASSWERK. They produce some of the finest glass in the world. better than most mentioned.
 
The first thing you have to decide is magnified or unmagnified based on planned use.
It seems a shame to mate a large caliber rifle to a red dot 1x...
3x or 4x provides a much longer reach regardless of the 16" barrel.
I like my ACOG.
 
absolutely correct. It is nice to have the red dot for close work, but a 308 should have at least a 3x. Ain't no way you are hitting anything at 1200 yards with a red dot 1x sight. Oh and the powder in a 308 burns up roughly at 15 inches so there isn't much to be gained going beyond 16 inches. Roughly 15-20 fps per inch. My personal preference for a 308 is a 1.5-6 or 1-6 if you can find them. Zeiss makes one, Leupold makes one. 4x will do just fine however. Also 1200 yards is roughly where the 308 goes subsonic. When it transitions it can destabilize and now you are guessing in the accuracy.

racegunner said:
The first thing you have to decide is magnified or unmagnified based on planned use.
It seems a shame to mate a large caliber rifle to a red dot 1x...
3x or 4x provides a much longer reach regardless of the 16" barrel.
I like my ACOG.
Click to expand...
 
I also have a Burris scout on my socom...also keep a Burris fast fire dot for low light levels. I like the smaller size of the Burris on the socom...the leupold is better (larger field of view), but seems better suited on a sport rifle. In all reality the effective range of the socom is most suited to the ghost ring peep and/or red dot (get one with trij) cause batteries die at the worst moment.
 
LOL...the recticle is set up for 1200 but if it's much more than 500 or so I'm switching from the .308 to the M107.
 
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