ORIGINAL critical view of Sebenza (superb folding job is not superb cutting action).

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koolstof

Joined
Sep 21, 2002
Messages
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Hear me out, an important fresh note on the rave for "Chris Reeve Sebenza knives".

First, let me say that I've written this in the belief that all Sebenza's are folders and that I cannot help but wondering what all the fuss is about (testimonials, price). I'm considdering to buy one of those knives, you know. I have never touched or used a Sebenza but however I noticed the following:

I think that we can all agree that the primary duty of a knife is being able to do a good cutting job, being able to sink its edge in what it is meant for. All the extra features (generalization but not that out of line for utility knife) besides the edge have a supporting role and allow users to carry the edge and control it as they see fit.

So, we all expect of a knife to be there for us when we need it. Overall, there are two kinds of knives: fixed ones and folders. The major drawbock of the fixed blades is their SIZE. The major drawback of folders is the sensitive folding/locking action that actually incorporates moving parts in knife-design as opposed to fixed blades. They are relatively smaller and thus easier to carry with you. The only knife that is of any use is that knife that is right there to use.

Moving parts mean wear and tear, small corners that are hard to reach for required maintenance, margins... In all a folder is not that simple (I say "simple" not "good", it's a trade-off)and sturdy as a handle and blade made of the same piece of solid metal. Logically, their edge does not fold (!). Folding is an action that supports accesabilty to the blade when you need it.

I want a knife to do proper cutting and to keep doing that. This inherently means maintenance. Folders need more maintenance, however durable they are and however minute the design-margins are, then fixed knives. Ergonomics, looks and more are optional.

It seems that our Sebenza strains itself to unimaginable limits to be a fixed blade. It seems to want so badly to offer the demanding user BOTH the advantages of fixed and folder yet none of the drawbacks. That in itself is an excellent philosophy. What's more remarkable is that it meets these very high standards in a seemingly flawless way.

Sebenza is easy to maintain, dependable, locks tight, looks good, pivots smooth and steady, is very carry-able and comfortable. These are wonderfull features... for a folding knife. Plenty of fixed knives offer these benefits.

So the sebenza is nearly a very handy fixed blade... That is quite surprising.

It seems the edge is superb too, does an excellent job, is easy to maintain but still offers the edge retention disireable.

But why pay like crazy for in knife like this while cheaper fixed ones really offer the same thing, fit with a prper sheath and some carrying drawbacks. Seems a somewhat littele knife for big bucks. Why SHOULDN'T we expect that a folder, all folders do not let us down? What we (well.. euh... wat I want at least...*lol*) want is the keenest of edges and superb retention for a fair price. I mean, considdering what you pay for your Sebie, should you be surprized that you can cut an apple with it?

Well, I'm stil considdering of buying a Sebie but if that knife can't handle flimsy critic of me than what CAN it handle :-p

Kind greetings and see ya!
 
Could we please have a moratorium on anything to do with the Sabenza? A cooling off period is advised .... :)
 
I have noticed that ALL the flack is coming from people who have never owned or used a Sebbie. That speaks volumes.

It locks tight and strong. It cuts well. It holds an edge well. It is a very durable knife. The customer service is great. It is somewhat expensive, but resale value is strong.

That's it.

People who have never used a knife should refrain from commenting on its perfromance, to do otherwise is assinine.

What to dman the Sebbie? Buy one, use it, and if you don't like it, the tell us about it.
 
you think I'm made of gold? Buy, just like that, as if it's a candybar... Somewhat expensive??? If you'd say a random population that you pay over 300 USD for a pocket knife just to give it a try... I was thinkin' out loud and I never claimed anywhere that it is inferior. Never teared it down but nevertheless you find it necessary to answer critisiscm with repeating what has been said millions of times. Mt point is and was that cheaper fixed blades offer same quality.

Szjees man, and even I was offending your damn knife, I don't pick on you...

As for never having used it, that is not my choice and second, I don't go check out ALL the movies at the theatre to decide wich one I like, one has to draw the line somewhere. And if that means my opinion is without value if don not have that knife, so be it... just disregard, don't give it a second thought, I do not force you to read it. I'm not caughing up hard cash just to "test" something.

Besides, Im convinced it's excellent quality.
 
Same old same old. Chris Reeve Sebenza knives are not striving to be fixed blades. Chris uses top of the line materials combined in state of the art ways to make a top shelf knife with a fair degree of profit margin. Same as car makers or anyone else. Go buy a plain jane 4 door sedan instead of a decked out top of the line sports car. YOu pay for superior materials and performance. If you don't need those fine. Some of us want the superior design, materials, and craftsmanship, even though it probably cant be justified just by the modest performance increases these things provide. Can cheap wine get you as drunk as expensive wine? Sure so have it buddy. YOu dont want to buy one dont. Lots of cheaper knives. Since the search function was disabled I am cutting you some slack. This is something that you should have just researched. Its all been said over and over and over. It like these people that drive by expensive homes and bad mouth them saying, nobody needs that to keep dry and warm, what a waste. :grumpy:
 
Why you should buy a Sebenza ? I don't know.

Why do I like Sebenza ? Because it's small, tough, great edge holding, cuts very well, a simple knife (you can't complain about many things), and it's efficient in term of space, not to mention the warranty. I gave it a try, and I love it. Been carrying it since then. I don't know about you though ;)
 
Now and then there is a great knife discussed.
However, a knife is a knife is a knife.

It really does not matter if the knife is a great
knife or a mediocre knife IF it does the job it is
the right knife.

So if a preson wants to own a Sebanza or a Camillus
stockman as "their" knife it's all what the person
is willing to pay for.

All knives of quality are good knives:D :D
 
Originally posted by Eric_Draven
I have noticed that ALL the flack is coming from people who have never owned or used a Sebbie. That speaks volumes.
Click to expand...

All right, now it's not.

I try very hard to stay out of these debates, but I've owned and used a small Sebenza, and it did not perform as I wanted it to perform. I don't think it was that my expectations were too high, since I've had $100 knives that performed, when you consider my specifications, far better. Carried better (didn't open in my pocket or on the draw), cut better, held the kind of edge I want (scary sharp, not roughed up) for longer.

I got rid of it, and I'll never own another one, unless the company finds a way to fix the problem I had with it (they've already fixed one, with the change to 30V) -- which isn't likely to happen, since hardly anybody admits that there ARE any problems with it.

People who have never used a knife should refrain from commenting on its perfromance, to do otherwise is assinine.
Click to expand...

With this, I could not possibly agree more.
 
Originally posted by koolstof
But why pay like crazy for in knife like this while cheaper fixed ones really offer the same thing, fit with a prper sheath and some carrying drawbacks. Seems a somewhat littele knife for big bucks. Why SHOULDN'T we expect that a folder, all folders do not let us down? What we (well.. euh... wat I want at least...*lol*) want is the keenest of edges and superb retention for a fair price. I mean, considdering what you pay for your Sebie, should you be surprized that you can cut an apple with it?
Click to expand...

I believe your question relates more to value or more specifically your perception of value.

IMHO there are 3 distinct groups of people that collect knives and we all fall into one of them.

There is the hard user-This person uses a knife regularly. He/She likes to camp or hunt or fish or maybe they work with their hands. Their number 1 concern is that a knife cut and cut reliably. They may or may not care about asthetics.

Then there is the collector-This person may rarely use a knife. He/She longs for the art of the knife. They study the mechanics and love a knife for the sheer genius of what the Artisan produces. Number 1 concern beauty, collectability, long term re-sale value, etc. Price, often means little.

Then there are the tweeners-These make up the largest group and are simply a combination of the two.

As you can see, you would be hard pressed to get a person in group one to care about an art knife or group two to care about a Ka-Bar. The point is simply this,,while a $50 knife can certainly cut, cutting is only 1 reason people own knives and in my case is the least important one.

my .02
Phillip :)
 
I did not evaluate it's performance, if anything the "perceived peformance by third parties". I never claimed I could judge whether this or any knife is worth our while.
 
Woohoo!!! I love this thread. I especially like it because nobody is stepping up to challenge your assertion. But heck, I’ll take a crack at it.

Yes, a small fixed blade has a lot to offer. You generally get much better ergonomics than a folder, and a much wider variety of styles, steels, and handle materials. I say this because, for a small price, you can get a custom fixed blade for much less than a Sebenza. I just purchased a small Dozier fixed blade, which has replaced my large Sebenza as EDC for the time being. I like Bob Dozier’s D2 better than the BG-42 in my Sebbie. I like the blade grind better. The micarta scales are gorgeous and tough. And I have no more pocket clip wear on my jeans.

But the change did involve a large compromise. A fixed blade just doesn’t have the convenience of a folder. You’re carrying the overall length, which is very noticeable in your pocket. That’s the hardest part to get used to, unless you can live with another method of carry, such as a belt sheath or IWB carry. You can vary your method of carry, depending in your surroundings and clothing, but that’s a whole lot of sheath changing. A fixed blade of any length just doesn’t come near to matching a folder in terms of convenience.

It’s all a matter of what suits your particular needs. The fixed blade option definitely isn’t for everybody. Only time will tell if it’s really for me. If it turns out not to be, I’ll be right back to my Sebenza. The Seb is the best cutting production knife I’ve found, that is close to a fixed blade in durability, and cheap enough for me to afford. Add in all of the other great Sebenza qualities, and you have an awesome value, IMHO.
 
This guy seems to catch my drift... Yeah, I too sense some avoiding action. Don't now why, if this thread displeases any, just ignore it. It was not made to displease, if it was well... you'd know.

Thanks, bye
 
I have a small Sebenza and have carried it for about four years. I am very pleased with the edge retention and sturdiness. Now having said that, I think that a lot of good quality production knives cut and hold an edge almost as well for a lesser price but probably are not as tough. But on a folder vs. fixed blade debate I agree with Buzzbait that it depends on what you are looking for. If you live and work in an area where fixed blade carry is an option and you find it comfortable, I think that you'll find a fixed blade to be sturdier for hard work. But IMO most of us don't require the type of sturdiness a fixed blade provides and don't want to put up with the inconvenience of fixed blade carry. (Laws, comments, work policies, etc.) So, a Sebenza is in a sense a compromise. It provides most of the reliability of a fixed blade but in a more convenient and less controversial package.

If you don't need to compromise carry a good fixed blade. (Chris Reeve makes those too.) Otherwise you have to look at the tasks your knife wil be asked to perform and pick a folder accordingly. As for myself, I usually carry either a Spyderco Salsa or Navigator to work.

Just my .02....
 
*yawns*

Like comparing a BMW M3 to a high end Ford Mustang that goes just as fast. Ahhh well....'arguments' like these, you can't win.

I've never owned a Sebenza but wouldn't hesitate to buy one after hearing about it's Greatness.

Warthog
 
I don't know how things are in Europe but here in the U.S. in the cities and suburbs a fixed blade is not really an option.Maybe unless its small enough to put in your pocket or IWB (uncomfortable for most people).Most jobs you will get strange looks even taking a regular size Sebenza out.So for everyday carry most people don't consider a fixed blade.So if you're compairing folders to folders the Sebenza is one of best for reasons already mentioned.
 
Yes, you can get an excellent quality fixed blade that will out cut the Sebenza for less money, and it will be more durable. The Rinaldi TTKK is a great example, as are Dozier's many great knives (2 for the rpice of a Sebie). But if you live in many states (like Michigan) it is not legal to carry a fixed blade. California is another example IIRC (with like 1/5th the U.S. population).

So the benifit of the Sebbie is that you get fixed blade durability in a legal, easy to carry package.

Also, while some may balk at spending three c's on a knife, look at what a high end watch costs, or a good pen. Look at audio equipment or musical instruments. IN comparison, knives are a ceap hobby.

In addition, my Sebenza is a working tool. It is an investment in my safety. If I need a strong lock, it is to protect my fingers. They are well worth a few bucks.
 
Mathew (if you would rather I call you Buzz, please let me know), I agree with you as far as the convenience of discrete carry of a folder over a fixed, but that is about the only aspect of folders that is more convenient in my opinion. I find fixed blades more convenient to use (I don't have to open and close one) and to maintain.

The Sebenza is a fine knife. One of the best folders on the market. This comes from someone that for a short time had the opportunity to own and use one. This being said, I wouldn't buy another one. There are far too many other knives out there that I want to try and the Sebenza just didn't impress me enough to have to own one. I certainly do understand why it has the following it does though. It is one heck of a solid, well engineered knife, and it is backed by an excellent company.
 
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