Orvet's Blades & Customs - Dale Vincent experience

[Dave Thinkstoomuch]

I paid Mr. Vincent full asking-price ($75.00 plus shipping, he had dropped it $20.00 by the time I bought it in May 2011) for a customized Schrade USA 6OT done in water buffalo horn and ivory. I bought it based on two(?) fuzzy low-res pics and his reputation. Here is a "wayback machine" link from Dec. 2010 to the knife: http://web.archive.org/web/20101203..._store/index.php?store_id=37&&category_id=453

When it arrived I was sorely disappointed because the handle and liners were screwed up and they were lifting off the knife. I posted as a "happy customer" here (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...incent-(Mammoth-Ivory-and-Water-Buffalo-Horn)) because Mr. Vincent seemed to be having a tough time and I wanted to "sing along with the chorus" to promote his business. You will note I didn't include any close-ups in this thread as I nearly always do but you can see the problem in one pic if you look real close. This was so I could "accentuate the positive".

He and I recently had a "falling out" over on AAPK and I told him honestly of the flaws on his knife and my reasons for keeping quiet thus far. He said he didn't need/want my charity or pity etc and that I should return the knife for a refund. After the blowout I wasn't convinced that I could trust to send him the knife so I tried to sell it here (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-R-Vincent-(orvet)-mammoth-ivory-buffalo-horn) at a loss "as-is" with an accurate description and detailed close-ups but no one is interested.

Since no one else wants it I want to take Mr. Vincent up on his offer to refund. I have now emailed Mr. Vincent requesting instructions as to how we would go about doing this return and I am awaiting his reply. I am working on the assumption that he is indeed a man of his word and that we can work something out but only time will tell and I thought this experience worthy of recording here.

I feel I was somewhat "scammed" because if you look real close at Mr. Vincent's pic after looking at my close-ups you can see this knife was flawed from the get-go but there was no mention of this in the listing. If he had pointed out the problems or supplied quality pictures (a $20.00 used Epson scanner would do the trick) I never would have bought it. His ad was mis-leading. I expected "1st quality" goods not a "second". The "sorry I don't know how to take good pictures" line seems somewhat contrived because Mr. Vincent does indeed know how to take good pics but, for whatever reason, he chooses not to do so. (a $20.00 used scanner + http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/505982-how-to-use-a-scanner)

I hope this is a super-rare isolated incident and that Mr. Vincent will make it right.

 

[CWL]

I paid Mr. Vincent full asking-price ($75.00 plus shipping, he had dropped it $20.00 by the time I bought it in May 2011) for a customized Schrade USA 6OT done in water buffalo horn and ivory. I bought it based on two(?) fuzzy low-res pics and his reputation. Here is a "wayback machine" link from Dec. 2010 to the knife: http://web.archive.org/web/20101203..._store/index.php?store_id=37&&category_id=453

When it arrived I was sorely disappointed because the handle and liners were screwed up and they were lifting off the knife. I posted as a "happy customer" here (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...incent-(Mammoth-Ivory-and-Water-Buffalo-Horn)) because Mr. Vincent seemed to be having a tough time and I wanted to "sing along with the chorus" to promote his business. You will note I didn't include any close-ups in this thread as I nearly always do but you can see the problem in one pic if you look real close. This was so I could "accentuate the positive".

He and I recently had a "falling out" over on AAPK and I told him honestly of the flaws on his knife and my reasons for keeping quiet thus far. He said he didn't need/want my charity or pity etc and that I should return the knife for a refund. After the blowout I wasn't convinced that I could trust to send him the knife so I tried to sell it here (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-R-Vincent-(orvet)-mammoth-ivory-buffalo-horn) at a loss "as-is" with an accurate description and detailed close-ups but no one is interested.

Since no one else wants it I want to take Mr. Vincent up on his offer to refund. I have now emailed Mr. Vincent requesting instructions as to how we would go about doing this return and I am awaiting his reply. I am working on the assumption that he is indeed a man of his word and that we can work something out but only time will tell and I thought this experience worthy of recording here.

I feel I was somewhat "scammed" because if you look real close at Mr. Vincent's pic after looking at my close-ups you can see this knife was flawed from the get-go but there was no mention of this in the listing. If he had pointed out the problems or supplied quality pictures (a $20.00 used Epson scanner would do the trick) I never would have bought it. His ad was mis-leading. I expected "1st quality" goods not a "second". The "sorry I don't know how to take good pictures" line seems somewhat contrived because Mr. Vincent does indeed know how to take good pics but, for whatever reason, he chooses not to do so. (a $20.00 used scanner + http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/505982-how-to-use-a-scanner)

I hope this is a super-rare isolated incident and that Mr. Vincent will make it right.

Whatever the condition of the knife, you are posting in the negative after 1 1/2 years. This is after you admitted you posted positives for the transaction originally.

Doesn't seem like you have given the Seller time to respond to your now changed-mind for a refund, yet you make this post attacking him.

You also admit that you have had a "falling out" with Mr. Vincent, so your motives are suspect.

If I were Dale Vincent, I'd tell you to go pound sand at this point.

 

[Dave Thinkstoomuch]

Whatever the condition of the knife, you are posting in the negative after 1 1/2 years. This is after you admitted you posted positives for the transaction originally.

Doesn't seem like you have given the Seller time to respond to your now changed-mind for a refund, yet you make this post attacking him.

You also admit that you have had a "falling out" with Mr. Vincent, so your motives are suspect.

If I were Dale Vincent, I'd tell you to go pound sand at this point.

I have posted in the "undecided", "still pending" not negative yet and this "attack" only states the facts. All of them. Even the ones that make me "suspect" in your eyes. You are not Mr. Vincent and the ONLY reasons I am asking for a refund at this late a date is because:

1. It was Mr. Vincent's suggestion, not mine, that I return it. I am only trying to see if he puts his money where his mouth is. Mr. Vincent knows the truth of what he sold me and how it was listed.

2. The knife was screwed from the get-go and everything I said in my first post is true. I bought one thing and got another.

My motives aren't at all suspect. They are very plain. I got sold a bad knife and I want my money back. I was told to return it and I would like to. I am displeased with Mr. Vincent and no longer care whether or not I can use his services in the future. I don't want to send him the knife and get nothing back for it so I am logging the experience here. I don't want to be ignored by Mr. Vincent because he's angry with me and he can't ignore this. Agree with them or not, they are as plain as day.

I don't want to keep beating a dead horse here so I'm not going to respond to any more opinions. I'm just going to post new developments and the final results. If I defend myself it will just be repeating what I have already said and make me sound more angry than I am.

 

[sheathmaker]

Dave, I don't think you "thinkstoomuch". Your delayed honest action defeats the very purpose of feed back. If you were not satisfied with the knife the very first day, you should have made it known then. That would have been the best and most honest thing to do for both you and Dale Vincent. I am not criticizing your assessment of the knife, only the fact that you chose to delay that criticism until now.

You spoke of trusting Dale Vincent....Trust is a two way street. Think about that. Since your photos don't clearly support your claim, it is possible that the faults may have come later....or not. Who knows?

Responding or not to my post means very little to me, but it also does not change the facts that you chose not to mention this deal until you had that "falling out".

Paul

 

[Dave Thinkstoomuch]

Dave, I don't think you "thinkstoomuch". Your delayed honest action defeats the very purpose of feed back. If you were not satisfied with the knife the very first day, you should have made it known then. That would have been the best and most honest thing to do for both you and Dale Vincent. I am not criticizing your assessment of the knife, only the fact that you chose to delay that criticism until now.

You spoke of trusting Dale Vincent....Trust is a two way street. Think about that. Since your photos don't clearly support your claim, it is possible that the faults may have come later....or not. Who knows?

Responding or not to my post means very little to me, but it also does not change the facts that you chose not to mention this deal until you had that "falling out".

Paul

I hear you and what you say is fair for the most part. For the record:

1. I should have returned the knife the day I got it. I never should have praised it to try and help his sales if I was unhappy. I made a personal choice in a business scenario. This much is totally my fault.

2. I apologize for lying to my fellow bladeforums members regarding my true thoughts on this knife. I am indeed just as guilty as Mr. Vincent when it comes to misrepresenting this knife.

3. I should never have bought a knife from anyone who cannot supply good pictures. I should never again buy on reputation alone.

4. I realize this is a very late refund request BUT, again, Mr. Vincent suggested I return it. I never asked.

"Since your photos don't clearly support your claim, it is possible that the faults may have come later....or not. Who knows?":

I know and Mr. Vincent knows. That's enough. That's for sure. Once again, he knows what he sold me and how it was listed. I wanted the knife to be praiseworthy and I still do. If I don't get a refund then I will move on but I want a response one way or the other and I don't want anyone else to end up in this same situation due to fuzzy low res pics. That's a big motivator for posting this here as well.

Regardless of how this ends up my prime message to bladeforums members is that you should always get good pictures of knives before you buy them even if Jesus Christ Himself is listing them. That's why I brought this dispute here. Do Not Buy On Reputation Alone.

 

[sheathmaker]

Dave, thank you for a considered and honest response.

Paul

 

[Dave Thinkstoomuch]

Dave, thank you for a considered and honest response.

Paul

No problem. Thanks to you for the same and not a "knee-jerk" reaction to my post. I scoured my hard drive and found Mr. Vincent's original pics. The bad spots are there. I just didn't look close enough originally and only saw what I wanted to see: that Dale Vincent does flawless work.

I agree that I have no "right" to a refund after all this time. I just want to see if I can get one because it was offered and I still feel the problem areas should have been mentioned in the description and that I do indeed deserve such refund.

Compare his pics with both the 2011 and 2012 sets I took and you can see that the knife was like this from the get-go. I never should have bought it. That's definitely on me. I guess the damage was partially shown but I missed it. My apologies to Mr. Vincent for suggesting he didn't show the area at all. That was my fuzzy memory. He just didn't show close-ups or the entire area or mention the trouble in the description.

 

[popedandy]

You bought the knife and carried it for over a year. You then told the seller you were not satisfied with the knife. Even though you had waited for over a year, he offered to take the knife back and refund your money. From what I see in your posts, there is thus far no indication that he will not make good on that offer. If he makes good on it, I think you do not have a complaint. I also think that he is being pretty generous by making the offer this long after the deal was concluded.

 

[Dave Thinkstoomuch]

You bought the knife and carried it for over a year. You then told the seller you were not satisfied with the knife. Even though you had waited for over a year, he offered to take the knife back and refund your money. From what I see in your posts, there is thus far no indication that he will not make good on that offer. If he makes good on it, I think you do not have a complaint. I also think that he is being pretty generous by making the offer this long after the deal was concluded.

For the most part you are right and obviously if I get a refund my final post will be to say that, in the end, Mr. Vincent is great to do business with. That would be in the "no complaint" category. I think he may have said it to make himself look "pretty generous" while having no intention of following through with it. We will see...

The knife however was oiled at the joint, wiped carefully of all fingerprints and stored in a safe-deposit box. I said when I was trying to sell it that it has never been used, carried or sharpened and that was and still is the truth as is everything I am writing. Compare my sales listing with Mr. Vincent's, I don't try to hide or downplay anything so that a potential buyer knows what he is going to get. My listing was way more truthful if "sins of omission" are considered.

 

[CWL]

IF you weren't satisfied with the condition of the knife, you should have contacted Mr. Vincent when you received it for return or some other amicable solution 1 1/2 years ago. Who cares if you felt pressured to post a positive rating, if you weren't happy, you could have not posted anything, but you did post a positive and that should have been it. This is a reflection of your integrity if you make false postings, whether they are good or bad.

I think Mr. Vincent is being the honorable person here for even offering you a refund after so long. But, you haven't given him a chance to do so before you post this long piece trying to harm his integrity. If all you want is a refund, this didn't need to be posted, or you could have waited until you heard back from him again. From your posts, it is pretty obvious that you are trying to harm his reputation in a situation that is "still pending" by your own words.

You should sit back and try to take another look at what you have written, you may be able to see that you aren't looking like the better person here. Mr. Vincent is. He appears to be willing to refund you your $70 because he is honorable, you are appearing very vindictive.

You may or may not wish to think so, but this post has been read by over 1,000 people, and we can let each person each decide for themselves.

 

[Dave Thinkstoomuch]

IF you weren't satisfied with the condition of the knife, you should have contacted Mr. Vincent when you received it for return or some other amicable solution 1 1/2 years ago. Who cares if you felt pressured to post a positive rating, if you weren't happy, you could have not posted anything, but you did post a positive and that should have been it. This is a reflection of your integrity if you make false postings, whether they are good or bad.

I think Mr. Vincent is being the honorable person here for even offering you a refund after so long. But, you haven't given him a chance to do so before you post this long piece trying to harm his integrity. If all you want is a refund, this didn't need to be posted, or you could have waited until you heard back from him again. From your posts, it is pretty obvious that you are trying to harm his reputation in a situation that is "still pending" by your own words.

You should sit back and try to take another look at what you have written, you may be able to see that you aren't looking like the better person here. Mr. Vincent is. He appears to be willing to refund you your $70 because he is honorable, you are appearing very vindictive.

You may or may not wish to think so, but this post has been read by over 1,000 people, and we can let each person each decide for themselves.

Look dude, I knew I would catch flack for posting this but you are repeating yourself.

When I do something wrong (as we all do sometimes) I try to make it right. I admitted to all that I made a false review. I already apologized for the false positive review. I have made it right the best I can. I have owned up to my mistake. Where is Mr. Vincent owning up to his part?

Offering a refund is only "generous" if the offer is genuine. If not then it's just lying.

Why did I post this really? Why get folks mad at me? Why look like an a-hole wanting a refund after so long?

You have totally missed my main point! Compare these two photos!



They are the same. I don't want anyone else to end up in the position I was put in. Mr. Vincent sold me a knife with some serious handle problems and they should have been highlighted in the listing. If I hadn't bought the knife someone else would have and I believe they would have been just as disappointed. This type of selling practice is wrong! If there are flaws on a knife you are selling you should mention them not hide them. This is what I have a problem with. Whether or not I get a refund is secondary. I really don't expect to see one.

I did everything I could not to take Mr. Vincent up on his refund (selling at a loss etc) but no one is interested. Taking him up on his offer was my last choice.

If I sold CWL the same knife in the same deceptive way I would be strung up for it. He would ask for a refund and he would deserve one. Misleading descriptions are a no-no when it comes to ethical business practices. Forget the refund request and stick with my complaint. I was mislead and his next customer might be too. It's too late for me but because I'm "walking through fire" with this thread I'm hoping other Bladeforums members will not end up in the same situation I'm in.

I'm not complaining because I can't get a refund! I'm complaining because I was deceived from day one. I don't care who looks like "the better person". I care that this never happens again to anyone else.

 

[Dave Thinkstoomuch]

Dale Vincent just responded to my message and has offered to refund the $75.00. I will be out the shipping but that's very reasonable after all this time. He wants to inspect it first though and will only refund if "...the damage was not caused by abuse or misuse". He knows best what caused this damage because it's exactly as he sold it to me.

I'm going to ship him the knife and recoup whatever I can. I am somewhat disappointed that he still acknowledges no deception on his part and is still acting like he is oblivious to the damage but it's hard to admit such things and whether he ever does or not is kind of moot because I have achieved my main objective: anyone in the future who reads this thread will be forewarned of my experience and that's all I can do.

I admitted to my "noble lie" and have set things right so I'm going to move on. I will never again say I'm happy with a purchase just to please/help a seller. I think someone who publicly owns up to misdeeds, apologizes and sincerely promises not to repeat them has the highest sort of integrity and I sleep well at night.

Caveat emptor!