Oso grande Knife and Tool Restocking Charge

Boink

Boink

Joined
Jun 6, 2002
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Has anyone bought from a knife company on the internet and got socked with a restocking fee when returning some goods?

I did, all $80.00 actual worth of restocking fee, from Oso Grande Knife and Tool. Bad enough I paid for shipping both ways, and now this fee is imposed.

I called and asked if the restocking fee could be applied to another purchase, (say, a Strider AR). But no, they are living steadfast by their policy.

Even if some companies have that as their policy, who exercises it? Don’t they know that once it’s exercised, the person who returned the goods is not going to buy anymore?

Has anyone gotten socked with a restock charge from Oso Grande or any other knife sales outfit? Would you buy from someone you know will impose the charge if you decide you don’t like the goods?
 
Could've tried to sell the knives as almost NIB somewhere else...

That's really what I'd do if I find out I don't like a knife. In my opinion, returning something because "you don't like it" is not being very responsible in terms of researching the product beforehand.
 
If their policy is a restocking fee, I believe them. Why wouldn't you believe what they put in writing for you and then did?

Phil
 
Consider it a "rental" fee - it's part of the cost of doing business.

Look at it another way - Oso Grande had to pay at least 2% (or more) plus a transaction fee on both the initial charge plus your refund when you sent back the knife. That is money they lost out of their pocket. Factor in labor, inventory stocking expense, lost sales, and other merchant incurred fees and a restocking fee of up to 20% is not unwarranted for certain items - especially if the items are special ordered.

Consider how much time and gas you would have wasted had you paid full retail as well... and factor that into any money you are out of pocket.

Just my two cents.

Kevin
 
"Restocking" is a serious cost to businesses. Returned merchandise has to be carefully inspected and repacked. In many cases, they still can't sell it as new so they end up having to give a discount on it. And of course they have to account for it.

Oh and believe it or not, if you bought by CC then they have to pay the CC company to credit you. When you pay by CC, the CC company skims typically 3-5% right off the top of your purchase. So, you paid $100 for an item, your bill will say $100. But the store only gets $95. Then, you want to return it and you expect a refund of $100. There's a problem right there, but it gets worse when the CC company dings the store another 5% fee for making the credit. So, to give you $100, they've got to pay the CC company $105. They're out a total of $10 now on a $100 order, that's 10%, and the item which you think is in "perfect" condition still can't be sold as new. They're gonna have to fire-sale it for maybe $85, a $15 loss. So, the store has now lost $25 on you. Maybe they'd prefer you not shop with them again. A restocking fee is only a reasonble way for you to try and make up some of these real costs to the store.

Online retailers often have problems with people who can't decide which knife they want, so they order three different knives, look 'em over, some more than others, and then return two of em. The store may make $50 on the sale of a $100 knife. But when they have to process two returns costing them -- real cost -- $25/each, they make no profit on the deal at all.

I've never seen a reputable online dealer who charges a restocking fee to replace defective merchandise. If the knife is an out-of-box defect, reputable stores will replace it right away for free. But when the problem is just that you changed your mind (or couldn't make it up in the first place), why should the store bear the cost?
 
I popped over to their website and checked out their terms & conditions for returns.

This is what I found:
Returns: All returns must be pre-approved and have Return Authorization Number ("RA#"). Returns are subject to a 20% charge. No returns accepted after 30 days. No returns accepted without an RA#. Returns will be handled via the phone only, no other methods will be accepted.
Click to expand...
I added the bold in there to highlight the 20% charge on returned items.

If you are talking about a fee in excess to this, I would certainly complain to their management, asking for specifics on why you where assessed charges beyond known, stated policy.
 
There you go. As far as I know, as long as the company's policy is explained up-front, you are stuck with it for the reasons set forth by Gollnick. It may be upsetting, but it's an economic fact of life.
 
Kevin & Chuck:
Your remarks are 100% accurate. People who aren't in the trade or any business for that matter, have no idea how expensive it really is. The only disagreement I have is that no one makes $50.00 on a $100.00 sale. Kevin will tell you it is far less than that, more like $15.00 to $20.00 after the CC company takes their cut.
 
Wow. Well, I guess the customer isn't always right.

Having terms is discretionary - it's coined for the abusers of the world. I know this, because I have a business also. Each new problem that crops up becomes a new "term" in the list of rules that a buyer must abide by.

But there's that idea of discretionary - insulting a customer guarantees that customer will never return. It's not as though there were a pattern - there wasn't.

I call it "winning the battle and losing the war." Reinforcing rules out-of-hand effectively turns off the tap of money flowing from the affected customer.

Think of it this way - say the owners decided to give a little and say, "we'll let you off the hook this time, but don't take advantage." - would that not make a believer out of the customer, thus guaranteeing a lot of future business?

I had one such opportunity.

In my custom business, an architect specified goods to be made a certain way, duplicating something on another tenant's floor that they had a part in previously. We did exactly that.

Well, it turned out what they directed me to do was wrong, despite following orders. The item we made was expensive. What to do?

I could have stood behind my "terms" and said this is what you had wanted us to do, tough cookies.

it was my decision to make it right at no additional cost. This saved the architect's reputation to an important customer of his. What was the outcome?

We were subsequently awarded a tremendous amount of work, without bidding , due much in part to how we (I) reacted in this situation.
 
The way I look at it is, if someone enters into an agreement (as any consumer does with an on-line retailer) they should not be angry if those terms are enforced. The customer certainly had the right not to enter that agreement to begin with.

In this case, if the on-line retailer chose to "waive their policy" of a restocking fee as a measure of goodwill in hopes that the customer would return for future transactions, that would be their choice, but not obligation.

A consumer should not be angry or hurt that standard policy they agreed to when purchasing was enforced.
 
Ron - that sounds like liberal mind-share.

Let's see you hopping mad the moment you perceive you've been screwed by some other business you buy from.

We are all consumers, do not forget.

I will continue to get rich by treating my customers right. I will continue to turn the money tap off to those businesses that knee-jerk the rules, out-of-hand.

Like I said, a business can win the battle, but lose the war. The customer is king.
 
How are you getting screwed? You bought from them, and agreed to their terms before the sale, right? You did read the terms & conditions, right? This is a posted policy, right?

I mean, you got the knife, decided that it wasn't for you, and returned it, right? Was the knife defective? Why do you feel they should they eat the cost of your indecision? After all, you are asking them to pay for your mistake.

Asking that the restocking fee be applied to another item was, IMHO, a fair question, but I can't see how you are getting screwed for borrowing their inventory and costing their time. Maybe that knife they sold you could have been sold to someone else who cancelled their order the day before you returned it... heck, you said yourself you are getting rich - so why are you arguing over $80 on a $400 knife? Heck, for all you know, that $80 could be their entire profit margin on that knife (not unheard of with certain brands).

Put it another way - if you make a late payment on your credit card, do you think you are getting screwed if you get hit with the 18% interest you agreed to when you signed up? Color me confused.

The knife industry isn't like others where items have a 400% markup. Knife sellers are lucky to get by on 25 - 33% - discounters get by on less.

Just my two cents again.

Kevin
 
Originally posted by Boink
Ron - that sounds like liberal mind-share....The customer is king.
Click to expand...
What? If the customer is king...if the customer is always right... why not have the attitude that you should have also been able to keep the knives free of charge? Where does the logic stop?

Yes, I am a consumer. I am a "Consumer Services Manager." I've been on every side of this issue imaginable. And yes, I've been mad.

But, if I didn't read the fine print, shame on me!

If a company I've done business with is not honorable, fulfilling their end of an agreement, I will not do business with them and tell my friends about the poor experience.

I can understand that the "bite" of $80 likely hurts both pocketbook and pride, but blaming Oso Grande for doing what they said they would do before you ever bought from them is simply not fair.

As I alluded to in my prior post, maybe this is their way of telling you that your repeat business is not wanted.

And while you’re associating me “liberalism,” you might as well call me a “numbhead” (or something else personally degrading). ;) [You’d be hard-pressed to find a more conservative, right-thinking forumite than me around this place.]
 
Mr. Boink is correct to point out that businesses need to be careful in their treatment of customers. There are several businesses where I have settled my account and walked out and never have and never will go back.

But it works both ways. Any business relationship is a two-way relationship.

As a customer, I like to reward businesses that give me outstanding service. I often reward them by patronizing them even though I know darn well that I could get the same item elsewhere for less. I often reward them with my loyalty. And I often reward them with my hearty recomendation.

But, on the other hand, I won't ask a business to do something for me that I know will be a loss to them.



This evening, an old friend of mine called. He's in town for a few days on business. He'd like to have dinner with me tomorrow, catch up on old times, you know. I called a favorite establishment of mine, "Do you have a table for two around 7:00 tomorrow evening."

"No. I'm afraid we're booked."

"Oh, that's to bad. It's Chuck Gollnick here and I was really..."

"Mr. Gollnick, good evening. 7:00PM will be just fine. Your usual table? Very good."

I expect that sort of service. But, we'll pay the full price for the dinner (and a generous tip). While I might ask them to jocky the schedule a bit, I won't ask them to loose money for me.
 
i understand why they would impose the restocking fee, used to work retail sales myself.

i also understand your points also. i rarely look at return policies myself, as i never return anything (yet) so i would be suprised also, and 20% seems high, we charged 10% FWIW

imho if i didnt like the conditions set by a retailer, i would take any future biz elsewhere and consider this a 'learning experience' myself...........


greg
 
I’ll cut to the chase. This is a no-win situation, so I’ll be tapping out and giving up and I’ll tell you why.

Spark has intoned and given his two cents worth twice. This rarely happens. This tells me i’m skating on thin ice. In this forum-world, all he needs to do is hit a key, click a mouse, and I’m history. Since I love the forum, and it’s spririted and lively discussion of knives, I’d just as soon avoid that.

By Spark’s active and strident participation in this argument, any possible sympathetic lurkers will not weigh in and go toe to toe.

There is no freedom of speech in a private forum; freedoms end when your viewpoints hits the ears of the forum owner and they deem it objectionable.

And what is objectionable in this case is that I’ve complained about the forum owner’s colleague; a friend in the business; or, in Ron’s case, a business partner who sells Ron’s knives. Friends watch out for their own; therefore, this is a no-win situation.

I asked a question in my originating post - Has anyone had to pay a restock fee to Oso Grande or any other knife company? I did not ask about the merits of the rules, or the wherefores and thou-nots. Apparently, I am in the company of those with shared interests of the accused.

It would have been way more honest to lock the thread and respond, “You have accused a business partner and friend of greedy tactics, of which we participate, and will not allow such discussion to take place.” - this would have saved lots of bits and bytes.

After all, my talk could be dangerous - look at what happened to Blockbuster, who, in enforcing their “rules”, angered a great portion of the customer base to the extent of entertaining a naton-wide lawsuit for greedily taking advantage in late-return fees. Blockbuster ultimately acknowledged, the return fees were FOUND MONEY and represented some 20% of their earnings!

Another corrollary: getting an $80.00 speeding ticket on a wide-open, six lane road with a 25 mile-per-hour speed limit. The law’s there for safety, but (wink wink) “we also digs the cash!”

Internet sales is mail order, plain and simple. People buy looking at 72 dpi pictures and a flashy description. They don’t have the ability to really look and touch; sense the size, witness the operation and workings of the knives.

It is known that traditional mail order firms price their wares accordingly, knowing that a percentage of stuff’s gonna go two-ways. Is the knife trade that cut-throat that people price their knives at such narrow margins so as to make a normal customer service thing, such as backing-out, a liability to them?

That’s my input in a losing argument. I’m giving up before I’m kicked out’a here.
 
Boink, you're dead wrong. There's no way in hell Spark would boot you from the forums for having a different opinion. Yes, it's a privately owned forum but he doesnt operate that way. I have personally seen him take alot of abuse and not ban someone, you were stating your opinions in a polite manner. Understand this, I disagree in opinions with Spark quite often but I have to say he is not quick on the ban button and you didnt do or say anything remotely near what would be neccessary. And Oso Grande is his competitor not his colleague. Ron is a really good guy too, he just sees this issue on the opposite side. Relax man, you're not gonna get booted for having an opinion.

On your issue, I happen to be in total agreement with you. I think the restocking charge sucks. If anything they should just charge what the CC company charged them. The labor it cost them they would be paying whether the employee had to restock your knife or not. Speak with your wallet, buy elsewhere from now on and make sure you know their policy. I refuse to shop at stores that have a no return store credit only policy, it's my choice and I speak with my money. Ever since about 10 years ago my younger son bought a pair of roller blades for $200 and found he couldnt return them, I make it my business to ask the policy anywhere before I buy, and I let them know why I'm leaving.
I hope to meet you at the NY show.
 
Spark is fair minded, otherwise he wouldn't have stepped in to explain the business side and defend a competitor.

When I buy a knife unseen and unheld (most of them),if I don't like it, I sell here on the Forums or trade it. Do I lose money? Yeah, usually a little bit. I consider it the price of "renting" the knife for review.

If the dealer send you the wrong item or the item is damaged then the dealer should bear all costs including free shipping to replace it.

If you order the wrong item or you don't like the item, you should bear the costs of your mistake.

This has been a good thread since it created some good discussion and thoughts.
 
Boink,

Unfortunately, the online knife world is that cut-throat. (Which is one of the reasons I've held off of a web site for so long.) Between Ebay and the guys that will throw up a web site and mark up everything 10%-20%, it is really tough for legitimate businesses.

While the guys that have cut their markup that low are for the most part no longer in business, they created a perception of acceptable price. It has gotten to the point that MSRP doesn't mean anything, or rather means "too high priced". While the retailers have had to significantly lower their prices to get your business, manufacturers haven't generally haven't lowered the prices they charge us. Even with bulk discounts, few internet companies make keystone.

I know what Kevin's markup probably is. I don't see how he can make a profit. He is not by any stretch the lowest priced. How do the bargain basement guys do it? By either having other income sources (ie. another job or a wife that works) or by making it difficult to return purchases, or by making sure all of their costs are covered if someone does return something.

There are trade-offs for low prices.

Pam
 
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