OT: A Day In The Life Of My People

Joined
Dec 26, 2003
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113
Hey Again:

I hope that I am not breaking any policy or forum rules with this post, but...

I saw a very poingant video about the experiences about 2 followers of Sikhism from Ohio. It, quite frankly, was very saddening and disturbing. I share it with you to share not only my pain, but in the hopes of education.

http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96781308/K=S...70/*-http://www.sikh.sjsu.edu/videos/news.wmv

Again, if I am out of bounds, feel free to lock and trash the thread. But it is certainly an eye opener and a strong indication that whatever effort is being made in education of the various faiths and peoples of the U.S. is not enough and more is needed.

For those that see the video, thank you. And please feel free to share your views. Sorry to have posted such a downer of a topic...
 
Sikhism is a religion. There are Sikhs of many races. However, some (like myself) do not relate themselves with their ethnicity or race, but rather their religion. Therefore, "my people" being a designation of those who share the same faith.
 
Not everyone is as ignorant as the intolerant lowlife jerks in the video, who are an small but annoying minority (i'm sure that even sikh's have their share of nutters).

Sikh's belong to a warrior tradition streching way back into history and have a particular religious duty to carry a small knife at all times , as well as the turban & uncut hair (the five symbols they have with them allways are: Kesh (Hair), Kirpan (Sword), Katchara (Underpants), Kanga (Comb), Kara (Bracelet) ), they are frequentlyl named singh either as a middle or last name, tho for that one i must plead ignorance as to why.

like the gurkhas, the sikhs have been a major addition to the UK's professional armed forces for centurys and have a very honourable and glorious past history.

anyway, welcome, ms514 and feel free to join us again in the cantina, pull up a chair while having a shlurp of your favorite tonic & i hope you get to feel at home. i see you've posted a few times before, and hope you like this haven of tolerance and respect for the differences in life as well as the sameness of all. (trolls and cheats excepted when caught tho)
 
Jot Singh Khalsa adopted the Sikh religion. Some of us know him as a fine knifemaker and jeweler. He is unmistakeable at knife shows, given the traditional Sikh slothing he wears.

"whatever effort is being made in education of the various faiths and peoples of the U.S. is not enough and more is needed."

While public education can try to instill a sense of appreciation for the diversity of cultures in this country, educating children in other people's beliefs is tricky, and may legitimately not meet with their parents' approval.

Whatever need each group may feel for acceptance, in the US we are supposed to accept people as individuals, and leave the groups to present themselves to their neighbors.

There will always be people who refuse to accept anyone at all different as members of their community. I have been exposed to this myself, and have decided over the years to be rather assertive about my rights as a citizen. This doesn't make them like me any more than they did before, but it makes me happy to shut them up. :)
 
kronckew,

Singh = Lion in Punjabi. It is the last name of all male Sikh's and some females too.
 
MS514,
My friend it saddens me to see this. Ignorant narrow minded people will always hate what they don't know or understand. The "mob mentality" is frightnening to see. I have great respect for the tenets of the Sikh religion which in my limited understanding are hard work, honesty, humility, family, charity and protection of the weak or less fortunate. Wouldn't the world be a better place if we all practiced just those virtues? Thank you for posting.

Steve
 
While public education can try to instill a sense of appreciation for the diversity of cultures in this country, educating children in other people's beliefs is tricky, and may legitimately not meet with their parents' approval.

100% on the money.
Not only that, American public education bodies are not supposed to really discuss religion at all in school, except in its pertinent historical relevance and in terms of cultural diversity and tolerance thereof.

Now, if you wanna talk about dorkheads and jerkoffs who abuse other people because they are different. Join the club and take a number, cause fat people, black people, the disabled, etc.. ad nauseum, are in line ahead of you.

It is interesting to note that Sikhism requires one to adopt the dress and language, to a certain extent, of another culture. So, one may claim that it is just a religion, not an ethnic group, but that's not entirely true. IS it...
Its sort of a cultural/religious package. It looks like one is part of the other.

This is a classic idea, one that was only really questioned by the Protestants who demanded a bible in English.
Does prayer have to be in Latin?
Why? None of the bible figures probably spoke latin except for the Romans.
Most of the old testament guys spoke Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek and Arabic.

I know thats off topic, but your post got me a-thinkin...
 
DannyinJapan said:
It is interesting to note that Sikhism requires one to adopt the dress and language, to a certain extent, of another culture. So, one may claim that it is just a religion, not an ethnic group, but that's not entirely true. IS it...
Its sort of a cultural/religious package. It looks like one is part of the other.

This is a classic idea, one that was only really questioned by the Protestants who demanded a bible in English.
Does prayer have to be in Latin?
Why? None of the bible figures probably spoke latin except for the Romans.
Most of the old testament guys spoke Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek and Arabic.

I know thats off topic, but your post got me a-thinkin...

This is something that confuses me as well. The website says that,

He aligned with no religion, and respected all religions. He expressed the reality that there is one God and many paths, and the Name of God is Truth, "Sat Nam".
Kirpan - the sword, with which the Khalsa is committed to righteously defend the fine line of the Truth.

So why bother adopting the dress code if 'there are many paths'? If 'there are many paths', then how does one know the 'fine line of the truth' and defend it with a sword? :confused: The Guru seems to preach tolerance while the religion seems to preach intolerance. I have the same problem with Christian and Muslim religions: They preach love for all neighbours and then act in violence and intolerance. I have some trepidation about Islam preaching love for all as well, but I have only just begun reading the Quran.

As I was passing by a presumably Sikh temple in Ontario I noticed a large flag across the wall that said, "Long live Khalistan, our Homeland". What am I to make of this? I object to having people in my country who use it as a safe base for rebellion in others. If Sikhs come to Canada, then, understandably, I want their allegiance to be to Canada and not the Free State of Khalistan. Also, what of the Air India attack? So far my exposure to Sikhism has been an awareness that they are a political group fighting for a free state in India.

Please try to understand and answer these hard questions, as they are a great source of consternation to me and I am trying to understand Sikhism.

Edit: I just watched the video. I'm reminded once again how our world is chock full of people who don't think things through. Thanks for sharing.
 
philthygeezer said:
This is something that confuses me as well. The website says that,




So why bother adopting the dress code if 'there are many paths'? If 'there are many paths', then how does one know the 'fine line of the truth' and defend it with a sword? :confused: The Guru seems to preach tolerance while the religion seems to preach intolerance. I have the same problem with Christian and Muslim religions: They preach love for all neighbours and then act in violence and intolerance. I have some trepidation about Islam preaching love for all as well, but I have only just begun reading the Quran.

As I was passing by a presumably Sikh temple in Ontario I noticed a large flag across the wall that said, "Long live Khalistan, our Homeland". What am I to make of this? I object to having people in my country who use it as a safe base for rebellion in others. If Sikhs come to Canada, then, understandably, I want their allegiance to be to Canada and not the Free State of Khalistan. Also, what of the Air India attack? So far my exposure to Sikhism has been an awareness that they are a political group fighting for a free state in India.

Please try to understand and answer these hard questions, as they are a great source of consternation to me and I am trying to understand Sikhism.

Very good post! :thumbup:

Something I find interesting is that with Christianity, at least as far as the New Testament is involved, and really Buddhisim as far as I can understand, the actual texts support almost a pacifist view, but sometimes in it's expression their is support for violence. Then with Judaisim there is a lot of violence in the scriptures , but in it's expression generally speaking it has gone beyond that. On the other hand Islam and to a degree the Hindu religion seems to have much more of a holy war tradition that has persisted even as the religion has come into the modern age.
 
philthygeezer said:
This is something that confuses me as well. The website says that,




So why bother adopting the dress code if 'there are many paths'? If 'there are many paths', then how does one know the 'fine line of the truth' and defend it with a sword? :confused: The Guru seems to preach tolerance while the religion seems to preach intolerance. I have the same problem with Christian and Muslim religions: They preach love for all neighbours and then act in violence and intolerance. I have some trepidation about Islam preaching love for all as well, but I have only just begun reading the Quran.

As I was passing by a presumably Sikh temple in Ontario I noticed a large flag across the wall that said, "Long live Khalistan, our Homeland". What am I to make of this? I object to having people in my country who use it as a safe base for rebellion in others. If Sikhs come to Canada, then, understandably, I want their allegiance to be to Canada and not the Free State of Khalistan. Also, what of the Air India attack? So far my exposure to Sikhism has been an awareness that they are a political group fighting for a free state in India.

Please try to understand and answer these hard questions, as they are a great source of consternation to me and I am trying to understand Sikhism.

Very good post! :thumbup:

Something I find interesting is that with Christianity, at least as far as the New Testament is involved, and really Buddhisim as far as I can understand, the actual texts support almost a pacifist view, but sometimes in it's expression their is support for violence. Then with Judaisim there is a lot of violence in the scriptures , but in it's expression generally speaking it has gone beyond that.(in the US) On the other hand Islam and to a degree the Hindu religion seems to have much more of a holy war tradition that has persisted even as the religion has come into the modern age.
 
An interesting look at the Sikhs. Thanks, MS514.

Wasn't a Sikh murdered right after 9/11 just for wearing a turban? They caught the guy. It's sad; visible symbols of faith are visible targets to extremists.


Ad Astra
 
Thanks for sharing the video.

People in groups are dangerous.

Those wearing turbans are not the only ones in peril.
 
Yeah...the definition of the Kirpan is not the most accurate on that page. The Kirpan is made up of two words, "Kirpa" and "Aan". Kirpa means mercy and Aan means honor and self-respect. Therefore, the Kirpan is that which bestows mercy on those who are being oppressed, harassed, subjugated, etc. and it protects the Sikhs' honor and self-respect when he/she is attacked in a physical manner. It is as much as a practical blade as it is a symbol, because it constantly reminds the Sikh of this duty, whether it be fulfilled with (always preferably) peaceful means or (last resort) more violent means. This was strictly detailed by the Last Human Guru of the Sikhs, who stated explicitly that the sword is only justifiable when all peaceful means have been exhausted. Therefore, the Kirpan is not, as the website states, a means to defend the fine line of "truth", but rather as a reminder to and a means of defending those who would be endangered, be it yourself or others. A Sikh's ideal life is to obtain liberation from the cycle of birth and death by connecting directly with the Almighty theough elimination of the self ego and rememberance of the Almighty until his/her soul becomes one with the One. However, a Sikh is acutely aware of the practical situation of the world, in which such an existence is not made possible without fighting for it, as there have been and will be those who cannot live and let live. Therefore, the Sikh was bestowed the life of a Saint-Soldier, where the object was rememberance of the Almighty, but yet, the soldier-discipline and martial arts were to be respected as the means to root out oppression and restore/maintain peace and harmony.

Now, as per the Khalistan point. The entire scenario really took off after 1984, when then Prime Minister Indira Gandhi launched a military assault on the Harimandir Sahib/Golden Temple (consider it the Sikh equivalent of the Vatican). Her excuse for the attack was to eliminate "terrorists" in the complex (allegations that never were proven). In the attack (which took place on a Sikh holiday, so the complex was even more full than before), thousands of innocent Sikhs were killed and the Sikh Reference Library was intentionally torched by the invading army and tremendous damage was done to the complex, as tank fire was used to decimate the building. Now, if a government wishes to eliminate or arrest a criminal or negative element, is would try to minimize the civilian casualties. However, in this case, the attack was launched with tens of thousands of innocents trapped in the Harimandir Sahib.

In response to this atrocity, Indira Gandhi was assissinated by her body guards, who were Sikhs. That very day, India erupted into mob violence across the country, in which Sikh businesses were torched, Sikhs were murdered, raped, tortured, burned alive and butchered in a brutal, organized and methodical manner, led in many cases by politicians of India. The death toll of this carnage was 10,000, the focal point of which was Delhi, where 3000+ were butchered. Combining the attack on the Golden Temple with this genocide, the Sikhs were deeply outraged and began a campaign to obtain justice, as the justice system failed and still failing to grant any punishment to those involved in these crimes against humanity. So from the period of 1984-1995, many Sikhs were activaly engaged in killing those who had perpetrated crimes against the Sikh community. And after suffering so much hatred and violence from the hands of those who were their own government and even thwir own neighbors, it is not unreasonable to conclude that the Sikhs would want their own homeland. As per the Air India case...nothing in the Sikh religion condones the killing of innocent individuals. Sikhs wear the Kirpan to defend innocents, not to perpetrate crimes against them. Therefore, if a Sikh was to engage in any act that targeted innocent people, that person has also forfitted the right to call himself/herself a Sikh. It is behavior that is contrary to the very tenets of Sikhism and not tolerated.

Now, given that these events have occured not more than 21 years ago, many Sikhs left India due to these atrocities and settled overseas in freedom-loving countries. The memories of those atrocities against Sikhs (which have so far claimed near 125,000 lives due to police killings...which were literally police going into villages, pulling Sikh youth from their homes, torturing and killing Sikhs, all under the blessing of the government) are still burning fresh. Therefore, some choose to express their seething anger in such displays as "Long live Khalistan, our Homeland". However, as the generations become more settled in their new homelands, they become much more integrated into that country and many of the youth of these immigrants are now working on helping Sikhs face discrimination and bias, rather than engaging in active struggle for a free homeland. They are Sikh Americans and Sikh Canadians. They have not forgotten what has happened to them in their former homeland, but they call their new countries their home.

Lastly, per Ad Astra's comment, the first hate murder in the U.S. was a Sikh in Arizona, one Balbir Singh. The murderer was indeed arrested and convicted. One very positive aspect of being in the U.S....the justice system does work, unlike India.

Any further questions and comments are more than welcome.
 
I'd be willing to bet that most of those beer drinking frat boys have never even heard of a Sikh. They only know what they see on TV. Very sad indeed.

Frank
 
Ya know, there is something called "common sense" which unfortunately is not so common these days.

For example, would I wear my confederate flag t-shirt at a NAACP convention. I don't think so. I would not expect to be greeted with open arms. Excercise your right to use common sense!

Wearing a turban in the aftermath of 9/11 is asking for problems. In the thousands of spectators at the football game, I guarantee you there will be some rednecks who will jump at the bait. Now the turban wearers are indignant that their rights were some how violated? Get real!!! The bleeding heart sheeples of the world will cry foul, but I tell you that is the way of it. Always has been and always will be. Get over it.
 
There's a waiter in my favorite Indian eatery here in WV that wears a turban. I think his name is Singh too. What is interesting in the blending of the cultures is most times he wears a turban, but the rest a camoflage baseball cap :thumbup: :D When in Appalachia...... ;)
 
The events that you are seeing on the video are events that happen to Sikhs on an almost daily basis. Sikhs are not lacking common sense, but they are also not going to abandon their faith due to these threats. I have had to assist in a case of a Sikh who was walking down the street with his relative and was attacked by 8 individuals due to the way they look. The man had his eye socket broken, multiple fractures to his face and still has scars from the attack. This case was on the street, not a football game. Many cases like this exist. There is a recent case in the UK where a Sikh barely dragged his stabbed and bound body into a pub asking for emergency medical care. All he was doing was walking out on the street. (The above story is here ). Many such cases exist.

The news people chose to show the football video, as it offers the most dramatic example of recist tendencies of people. However, the news people had the Sikhs wear the camera for 3 weeks, and at the beginning of the story, they note that even in malls and in just walking around, the Sikhs suffered plenty of racial comments and gestures. Sikhs, being human beings, do need things such as food and clothing. We must venture out to obtain these things into society, where plenty of such treatment is meted out. Awareness is needed so that at least people know who the Sikhs are so that such tragedies do not occur again.

The majority of Sikhs have stopped attending social gatherings unless they go in numbers because of this behavior. The community is well-aware that treaveling alone is a very bad idea and travels in at least in pairs. Sikhs are not looking for sympathy or some pity, nor are they incapable of defending themselves, but they also have no desire to engage in physical altercations with fellow Americans/Canadians/British/etc. We are quite "over it" and quite in touch with reality, as we face it everyday with plenty of common sense. But we will do our best to educate as much as possible.
 
Semper Fi said:
...I guarantee you there will be some rednecks who will jump at the bait.

ain't just rednecks my friend, rednecks like any other groups have their good and bad members. i may be a redneck, but that don't make me a racist. i may be a southerner, that don't make me a racist, and i might have a confederate flag, and THAT don't make me a racist either.

lest we forget, as the yankee victors would like y'all to - more people of colour fought for the south, and in integrated battalions, than did for the yanks, or in battalions manning the fortresses defending mobile and n'orleans, more statues to brave black CONFEDERATE soldiers exist in the south than do for black yankee soldiers up nawth. these truths were in fact given to a NAACP convention (tho i'm not sure they brought a flag with them) when they were asked to attend the unveiling of yet another statue to a southern hero who happened to be black.

and as my family (and yvsa's) will attest, more native americans fought for the south than they'd like you to know....
 
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