OT: anyone else get acupuncture?

[DannyinJapan]

Actually, that article is an excellent example of what I was trying to get at. The practice in question isnt discussed in terms of actual medical science, but rather culture and identity.
It is very similar to Ghost sickness, a psychosomatic illness sometimes seen in Native Americans who feel disconnected from their ethnic roots.
It's not actually treating any actual pathology, but reaffirming that person's identity as a member of their cultural/ethnic/family group.
Easy test: Ask the person in question if they would accept the treatment from a person who learned the techniques but is clearly not a member of his or her ethnic group. (like some big white guy from Texas)
IF they say yes, then maybe it has real medical value.
IF they say no, then you know there's more to it...

The treatment has to come from someone inside the group. There tends to be some kind of physical evidence of their affirmation that they are part of the group. (bruising, cutting, even tattooing)

Now, dont get me wrong, I believe in the benefits of shock therapy. Physical pain CAN improve one's emotional outlook. (My tattoo cured me of depression)

In Japan, and probably some other Asian countries, there is this tendency to believe that biology and all other scientific facts are culturally relative, which they arent. (Maybe eating raw fish will make you sick in America, but not in Japan. Bloodtypes over here are used as horoscopes and AIDS only occurs in Americans, for example)

Please remember I'm not criticising anyone. (It might sound like it but I aint!)

 

[Howard Wallace]

Easy test: Ask the person in question if they would accept the treatment from a person who learned the techniques but is clearly not a member of his or her ethnic group. (like some big white guy from Texas)
IF they say yes, then maybe it has real medical value.
IF they say no, then you know there's more to it...

Very interesting. I'll try that test on Red Flower. Of course, she reads the forum so that might invalidate the result.

My (2nd Gen in US Japanese) Aikido sensei taught me acupressure techniques a few decades ago. I never noticed a big cultural difference between asians and others in willingness to receive treatment.

I wonder if I would let a burly Sumo wrestler perform an appendectomy on me? He might have impeccable qualifications, but just not fit my image of someone who knows what he is doing. You may be running into similar situations in Japan.

Although Red Flower and I often teach each other about our native cultures, we do run into occassions when the foreigner teaches the native about the native culture. It is an interesting dynamic.

 

[DannyinJapan]

you can say that again!

 

[cognitivefun]

My gui sha was done with what looks like (it might actually be??) a bottlecap

BTW, my acupuncture practitioner is not of Chinese or Asian extraction.

 

[Red Flower]

My gui sha was done with what looks like (it might actually be??) a bottlecap

I think what you mentioned is not "gui sha". We call that as "ba2 huo3 guan4，拔火罐", literally it is translated into English as “pull out/remove fire pot/jar”. But it's called "cupping" by a lot of foreigners

http://www.chinesecultureclub.org/beijing/events/archives/2001/2001_guasha.htm#

The picture on the right lower corner shows a patient after " ba huo guan" treatment with some round bruises and a patient after "gua sha" treatment.

A couple of more links:
http://www.shen-nong.com/eng/shen-nong/glossary/bahuoguan.htm

http://www.naturalapproach.com.au/healing/print.php?sid=30

 

[roughedges]

respectfully danny, if you truly believe this: "Now, dont get me wrong, I believe in the benefits of shock therapy. Physical pain CAN improve one's emotional outlook. (My tattoo cured me of depression)" is it such a large leap to accept the possibility that gui sha also has its medical benefits?

For myself, I get accupuncture every time I am in maryland and herbal "cakes" sent us every few months. it certainly helps with various aches and I believe it could help me with much more if I recieved it regularly.

 

[kamkazmoto]

Easy test: Ask the person in question if they would accept the treatment from a person who learned the techniques but is clearly not a member of his or her ethnic group. (like some big white guy from Texas)
IF they say yes, then maybe it has real medical value.
IF they say no, then you know there's more to it...

Danny, I never thought of it that way, it is an interesting dynamic. My wife always wants me to perform the Indonesian equivalent of gui sha on her but I have to refuse. I just can't see myself doing that to someone I love. I realize that my prejudice is cultural but I just can't do it.

 

[DannyinJapan]

Well, Im not saying its not personally beneficial. What Im saying is that it is largely a psychological therapy that treats an emotional/psychosomatic condition.

I think they did just demonstrate scientifically that acupuncture does help with some kindd of knee condition? Was it arthritis?
I cant remember.

I never meant to imply that it isnt effective. It certainly is.
My whole suggestion is that perhaps the real problem is something other than what we think it is and the real cure is also something else....

Culture and identity, powerful stuff..

 

[Howard Wallace]

My wife always wants me to perform the Indonesian equivalent of gui sha on her but I have to refuse. I just can't see myself doing that to someone I love. I realize that my prejudice is cultural but I just can't do it.

I talked to Red Flower about this and she also said she would be willing to get the treatment from me, if I learned to do it properly.

I don't really have a problem with it. I have always bruised easily, and it seems to cause me no lasting damage. It is not uncommon for me to come out of a dojo covered with bruises from relatively light contacts. Life is a Gua Sha treatment for me. One time when I was in counseling with my first wife, the counselor saw the bruises on my arms and asked if my (then) wife had been beating me. We both cracked up.