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OT At the risk of incurring some harsh words

that's one of the most absurd things I've ever heard. I swear, some people don't have the common sense God gave geese.

Frank
 
You can go into harms way and die for your country, BUT Don't You Dare Break A Law In California! This state SUCKS! Luckily I will only have to live here a couple more years, then I'm Gone:D Gonna move back to America.
 
When I was stationed in germany they had a rod and gun club on post that you could specail order from prices were more than fair. As long as you kept items in the armory of your unit evrything was cool.
 
When I retired from the Corps in 78, I couldn't waite to get out of that state and it has gotten worse. There is no doubt that a bunch of that state is a bunch of sick puppies.
Unfortunatly most of the state governments are getting just about the same. A bunch of laws that do not stop crime or even slow it down. Mostly because they didn't enforce the ones they already had on the books. Seems the most restrictive laws have done nothing but make things worse for the law abiding citizen. Plus the tough law states have the higher crime rates. How do you figure it.:mad:

And don't let our guys headed for war have the gear they want to protect themselves. I guess it is a good thing that we have been sending some khuks to the war zone.
 
Nice to see a pro gun article out here in sunny, southern California.
A little literary largesse is involved though: The ten round limit on magazine capacity for civilian owned pistols is a federal mandate, not state. That it does not limit police, applies to duty weapons (that, currently is true for military issued weapons as well).

The ten day wait, however is, unfortunately, a state deal.
Then again, there is a compact semi-auto available to the military through the supply chain, the Sig-Sauer M-11. It holds thirteen rounds. I would have thought a unit that needs it would have procured it. So, while it would be nice to have your own personal weapon to take with you, if you are Special Ops capable, trained to that mission, and are only now thinking of it, you are better off with what you trained with.
God bless'em all and keep'em safe.
Regards,
Greg
 
that would have to be one of the stupidist situations i have ever seen.
surely an exemption would be easy to put in place for special permits for military going off to war. this makes me bloody angry the soldiers should be able to have any and all advantages available to them.:mad: :)
 
Thanks for the real info Ripper. It addresses precisely the questions that came to me when I read the article.

While the ten day wait does certainly appear arbritrary and pointless like many other features of CA gun laws, I have to say that the idea that someone, particularly special ops, who has been training and preparing for months/years isn't going to think about acquiring such a pistol until ten days before he ships out isn't very convincing. If he wants to "trade up" from the standard issue, or carry more than standard issue, fine, but jeeze, not thinking about it until the last minute is frankly a bit scarey in terms of preparedness.

If some snafu at the base/armory made it difficult/impossible to procure/store and train with the weapons ahead of time, or folks aren't getting what they need (as opposed to what they might prefer) issued, get that in the daylight and fix it NOW. Getting the guys properly equipped and trained by the military itself takes priority over winging about state (and federal) civilian gun laws if this is a real issue.

Frankly, the piece appears to me to be a crappy bit of propaganda replete with factual inaccuracies and calculated emotionalism exploiting the very soldiers it claims to support.

This saddens me. It just gives the anti-firearms nuts more ammo. And stoops to their level. If the argument is to be made that the current gun laws are ineffective and unduly penalize responsible, law abiding civilians or military personell, then those making the argument must behave responsibly and write factually. It's an upstream battle as it is, this kind of thing we don't need.
 
Firkin; I thought many troops had to be ready to deploy overnight or within 48 hours.

munk
 
Firkin; while it is true the federal 10 round limit overshadows state law- I believe that Law may have been modeled on Calif's original law. I could be mistaken. Do military person's have to comply with the ten round limit in other states? Probably, but I'm curious.

At any rate, I liked the article. The waiting period would seem to be misdirected for military personnel.

If you'd lived in Cal as had I for many many years, and watched it go from Garden to Slum, watched as the State registered weapons and then took them-you might feel as I; that ANY slam against gun law is good in the new Gelago. I hate what 'they' have done to my old home. They even took the friggin desert away!!

munk
 
before posting the article. They seem legitimate, and UFL had nothing on the story. I live in Wisconsin and have no idea of the CA laws. The ten round limit applies here, as well...but as some have said, that's a federal mandate.





. In 1985, The Register became The Orange County Register. That same year, the newspaper won a Pulitzer Prize for its photographic coverage of the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics. It won a second Pulitzer Prize, for specialized reporting in 1989, and a third in 1996 for investigative reporting.

Today, The Orange County Register is the largest of 28 daily newspapers operated by Freedom Communications, Inc., a privately-held company that ranks as the nation's 11th largest newspaper company (by daily circulation) and one of the leading media companies in the United States. The Orange County Register is part of Freedom's Metro Information Division, which also includes The Gazette in Colorado Springs, Colo., the East Valley Tribune in Mesa, Ariz., and the Daily News-Sun in Sun City, Ariz. The Register, as part of Freedom Orange County Information, also publishes 23 weekly newspapers, including the Spanish-language newspaper, Excelsior, three magazines, and myOC.com, the local Orange County internet Web portal.
 
Firkin; I thought many troops had to be ready to deploy overnight or within 48 hours.
Click to expand...


Munk,

This further weakens the premise of the article, IMO. All the more reason to have already bought a personal weapon, no? Or have been issued the needed equipment. Or expect that it will be issued tomorrow. (If it isn't issued, the fault is not with state gun laws)

I suppose that it is possible that someone is deployed in less than ten days after his training has advanced to the stage where he is permitted to keep a personal weapon in the base armory. Seems unlikely or rare to me, but I've been wrong before.


I fully agree that the gun laws in this state are arbritrary, capricious, and written in such a way that incremental erosion of gun owner's rights can occur without public debate. Also that the goal of many who make them is probably to eventually criminalize any one who owns a firearm or just to stay in office, by going with the flow. They have used deceit and fraud to convince the populace that it is in their best interest that this be done.

Pointing out that deceit and fraud, and the inability of these laws to to provide the result claimed is one way to fight this. Lots of people work hard at this, and it's a difficult fight. For pro-gun right people to employ the tactics of deceit and fraud while attacking same in the opponents is just plain stoopit, IMO. Lies work by repeating them until they seem to be true, and there's a lot more of them repeating their lies from places that get more attention. Lies cease to work when exposed for what they are.

In order to effectively argue that the writers of these laws have abridged constitutional rights, individual rights, deceived the public with doctored statistics, and mis-stated their true intent, one has to take the high ground. Giving them the chance to display a "lying gun-kook who will say anything to keep his weapons" doesn't really help the cause much, methinks.

Other's opinions on this may differ, I guess.

If mys BS-detector went off, I'm sure that it's not going to convince anyone that's not already against the current gun laws.

If Ripper's rendition is correct, I'd say the federal law limits police and military to 10 rounds except in weapons issued them for duty. It would appear that neither can purchase a 13-round weapon themselves. I may be wrong, but that's sure how what was written reads.
 
It is not, "all the more reason"; it is less. There are many factual accounts of women who died while waiting for the 14 or 10 day waiting period for their personel handgun. Their ex boyfriends and abusive spouses did not honor the law. If you mean to say anyone going overseas should have already procurred the weapon of their choice, fine, but people are not robotic and decisions can be made at any time. I am surprised you would take this tact. The Register is a premier paper. As I trust and defer to your judgement on many other issues I am curious why you have this perspective.


munk
 
Munk,

"There are many factual accounts of women who died while waiting for the 14 or 10 day waiting period for their personel handgun. Their ex boyfriends and abusive spouses did not honor the law."

I agree 100% that this is a valid and convincing reason that the waiting period should be extensively shortened or eliminated. No argument here from me.

"If you mean to say anyone going overseas should have already procurred the weapon of their choice, fine."

That is exactly what I mean. Or perhaps "anyone prepared to go overseas". Particularly when they've devoted themselves to preparing for that, and the rest of us have spent a lot supporting them. I don't think is unrealistic to expect that if they find a personal weapon important to the performance of their mission, or their safe return that they be so prepared as soon as they are able to keep one in the armory, even though the waiting period is an admittedly arbritrary inconvenience. Yes, here the waiting period is dumb.

No, I'm not particularly prepared or organized myself, and I take the lumps for that when they come. When there is a high probablility that the safety of myself or especially others close to me could be compromised, the story is a little different. If I spent most of my time training to operate in such an environment, I'm sure I would be considerably more organized and prepared.


The case is much different in the case of the women with abusive spouses or boyfriends. They have not spent months or years of their lives single-mindedly devoting themselves to deal with an abusive male. They have not had extensive training and support in how to be prepared for this. There is not an expectation that they have procurred a personal weapon for the unexpected danger in which they find themselves. Here the waiting period is not merely dumb, it is inexcusable.

" I am surprised you would take this tact."

Because I want the precious few pro-gun right or anti CA gun law arguments that get prominantly aired to have the power to convince the undecided and hopefully even some supporters of the current laws that they need to be changed. This one doesn't IMO, and I've already expressed my concerns about how it could be "spun" by the supporters of the current gun laws. Weak argument, or argument in which the opponents find valid fault, distracts from the cogent arguments and lessens their power.

I suppose that a great deal of effort could be spent to get some amendment so that deploying soldiers to whom the service has not found reason to issue a compact semi-auto or a compact semi-auto of the soldier's preference, can avoid the waiting period. If the military is willing, they could even procure 13-round magazines and issue them. Of course, under current laws the 13-round magazines probably couldn't leave the base except for deployment. The military could probably act as an intermediary for the pistols themselves if it was deemed important.


I may take some heat for this, but I suspect most in the forces don't get to decide what carbines they'd rather carry, or what grenade launchers, what boots they wear, or what submarines they'd rather be in. They are to get what they need issued. And it's supposed to be high quality. If they aren't getting what they need then fix that now. It is fortunate that they can often get to carry a personal semi-auto or knife of their choice, and I fully support that if it helps to get the job done, or gives them added confidence.

I'd rather see the gun-law reform effort focussed and co-ordinated towards getting the laws truely changed instead of ammending them to take care of what seems to me to be a fairly minor issue that has obvious work arounds. Ammending the law to take care of one obvious and small injustice will actually lend legitimacy to the rest of it's injustices in the eyes of those who don't recognize the remaining injustices. It will just make it harder to actually change.


I hope that I've made sense.
 
My bad,in retrospect the article is correct; in that it "is" California penal code that restricts the "sale" of assualt weapons and high capacity magazines.

The federal mandate contained in "The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994" bans the manufacture and importation of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines as of September 13, 1994.

The ins and outs, the who can and can't (also the where and when), of high capacity magazines in California can be found here: Dangerous Weapons Control Laws.

Regards,
Greg
 
Last I knew military post were federal reserves and only responsible to federal laws and the ucmj laws. This would mean they are a law onto themselves. An example of this would be while stationed on fort hood they had laws governing motorcycle riders that were stricter than texas law. If this is so then why couldn't the indiviuals by the hand guns on post.
 
When I shipped out to Viet Nam in 1965, no personal weapons were allowed. If they were found, they were confiscated.
 
"I hate California, it's cold and it's damp...."

As quoted from song by Frank Sinatra, Sands Hotel, Las Vegas, Sept. 1961
 
It could be that it was just something perticular to Germany. I know Ft.Hood had a rod and gun club but to weather they could sell guns I don't know. It's proably something thats up to the post commander. I know that as far as drinking laws it depends on what the state laws are.
 
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