OT? Bulldozer vs. Town

In a JUst Universe, this clown would have fought it out with the meth head in California who stole the tank. The tank was unarmed, so the bulldozer and the tank could have had a fair match.


munk
 
First: I'm glad no one else was hurt.

Second: I can see this becoming the basis of a very popular video game.

Third: I can almost hear the Command shouts: "Quick Men !!! Hop on the Road Grader, or the D-11, he's NOT going to take our cement plant !!!"

and Fourth: "Friends KNEW he was welding steel plate on his bulldozer." ????????????????????????????????????????????????


Reality is a trip.


Kis
 
At least one local let the local police use his personal .50 to engage the D-9.

Also, the folks at the concrete plant evidently engaged the Mad Max Track with gunfire...
 
Spectre said:
At least one local let the local police use his personal .50 to engage the D-9.

Also, the folks at the concrete plant evidently engaged the Mad Max Track with gunfire...
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Interestingly that isn't mentioned in the article linked below, which comes from the Washington Post. They do note:

Police found two semiautomatic machine guns, a .223-caliber rifle and two handguns in the vehicle. All those weapons are legal in Colorado.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18948-2004Jun5.html

Err, what is a "semiautomatic machine gun". Looks like an oxy-moron to me, but I'm no expert.
 
Did the moron off himself or what? How did this end?

If I remember correctly the tank guy get drilled by police at the end.
 
We are getting all this from the authorities' point of view. Something pretty ugly happened to set this guy off. It is unfortunate that we will never hear the other side of the story. Did the police assassinate this guy after the tractor got stuck, or did he kill himself? The press is remarkably unclear on that point.

n2s
 
We are getting all this from the authorities' point of view. Something pretty ugly happened to set this guy off. It is unfortunate that we will never hear the other side of the story. Did the police assassinate this guy after the tractor got stuck, or did he kill himself? The press is remarkably unclear on that point.

Good points. He was more than "set off", he stayed that way long enough to do a LOT of preparation over a considerable time.

But if this story is accurate,

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%7E23827%7E2195601,00.html

earlier, one officer tried pretty hard to shoot into the cab at pretty much point-blank range with no (apparent) success. Granted, it would be tough to try while clinging to a greased (what didn't this guy think of, besides getting stuck?) moving vehicle.

But yes, this reads pretty strange:

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%7E23827%7E2195600,00.html

Granby - It took three explosive charges and an hour with a cutting torch to get inside the cab of an armored bulldozer...

...However, fearing Heemeyer had left them a postmortem booby trap, authorities waited hours before using a crane to gingerly remove his body Saturday morning from his self-styled, bulletproof cab.

While there were no leftover explosives, local officials looked with horror and awe upon the machine of destruction created by Heemeyer, a 52-year-old muffler-shop owner whose anger is thought to have been fueled by a zoning dispute with the town...

Leftover??? Were explosives mentioned anywhere else? "Booby-trap" concerns were absent while employing explosives and a cutting torch to open the vehicle, yet surfaced upon opening it?

Something doesn't seem to add up here, IMO. Was the guy wounded, but alive when they first got in?
 
do you remember the Ca tank driver? I never understood why they opened the hatch and fired into it, killing the guy. Because he wouldn't come out?


munk
 
munk said:
do you remember the Ca tank driver? I never understood why they opened the hatch and fired into it, killing the guy. Because he wouldn't come out?


munk
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As I recall, he got high-centered on a median divider or something, and was immobile as well. Seems they could have just waited the guy out unless he was able to get the thing moving again.

I wonder if some or a few of the police are well-enough trained that they don't fly off the handle after experiencing what ammounts to a public display of temporary, but complete impotence.
 
munk said:
do you remember the Ca tank driver? I never understood why they opened the hatch and fired into it, killing the guy. Because he wouldn't come out?
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In some states a 60 ton vehicle on a rampage is considered a deadly weapon.
 
:D

Try not to attribute too much clear thinking to ANY city's official under stress.

In Chicago, back in the '70's, an adventuring daredevil climber scaled...either Sear's Tower, or the First National Bank building...and the Fire Commissioner, determining that this was too dangerous, ordered his crews to hit the guy with high-pressure water hoses somewhere about the 50th floor!

Apparently someone pointed out that the water hoses might, in fact, present a danger to the climber and pedestrians below, as well. They shut off the hoses. The Fire Commissoner just knew he had to ACT.

Nobody said "act rationally."


Kis
 
kis is right, any person can become an impetuous emotional idiot, and that's just a fact of life. Training can increase the threshold, but doesn't change that fact. A position of authority just means that bigger stupid "decisions" can be made, and faster.
 
In some states a 60 ton vehicle on a rampage is considered a deadly weapon>>>..>>>>> SMEGS

Smegs. the tank was stuck on a freeway center divider and could not move. It had been stuck for some time. He was no longer a danger inside the tank, and if he came out, could have been dealt with should he have presented a deadly weapon. They said he would not drop his handgun when they pulled the hatch open. Why not close the friggin hatch after tossing a gas canister inside?



munk
 
munk said:
Smegs. the tank was stuck on a freeway center divider and could not move. It had been stuck for some time. He was no longer a danger inside the tank, and if he came out, could have been dealt with should he have presented a deadly weapon. They said he would not drop his handgun when they pulled the hatch open. Why not close the friggin hatch after tossing a gas canister inside?
munk
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It's been awhile since I seen that on TV but if I remember right, the engine was still functional and the driver was doing his damnedest to free the tank. If that had happened in my neighborhood and I had the chance, I would have shot him. No one was safe till that tank and the driver were neutralized. A running tank with a driver still posed an extreme hazard to that community. What you had was an enemy tank rolling through the streets. Anybody with the balls enough to jump on a running tank, pop the hatch not knowing if the driver is armed has the right and is duty bound to end it by any means necessary.
 
WE disagree then. It may have been running, but was hardly functional. He was a trained tank guy and could not free it- it was stuck as soundly as the tank traps used to do. What you say makes sense, I just think the area could have been protected without taking the man's life. GAS canister.

When the tank was actually moving, I would have no problem blowing it up with the fool inside. I wonder if a armor penetrating 50 could have done it? Or if the cops could have recieved a basoka (sic) more quickly ( or even had such on hand) .


munk
 
munk said:
WE disagree then. It may have been running, but was hardly functional.
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By who's reasoning. I don't think the TV audience counts.
He was a trained tank guy and could not free it- it was stuck as soundly as the tank traps used to do. What you say makes sense, I just think the area could have been protected without taking the man's life. GAS canister.
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Again, we have a guy who obviously knows tank at the controls. He's stuck but is still gunning the engines. He thinks he can free the tank. Why wouldn't anybody else think the same? To say it was stuck soundly is arm-chair quarterbacking at it's finest.

When the tank was actually moving, I would have no problem blowing it up with the fool inside. I wonder if a armor penetrating 50 could have done it? Or if the cops could have recieved a basoka (sic) more quickly ( or even had such on hand) .
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As opposed to shooting him while inside a steel container where the risk is minimized for all but the shooter? I think there was enough deadly mayhem that afternoon without introducing .50 caliber rounds and bazookas into the mix. One thing I will agree on - I'm glad you weren't in charge :)
 
Sigh - back to the usual Cantina arguments, pushing and shoving.

Time to take their keys and call a couple cabs to haul them home.

:D :D :D :D :D
 
smegs said:
If that had happened in my neighborhood and I had the chance, I would have shot him. No one was safe till that tank and the driver were neutralized.
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Lets see, The tank was stuck, apparently the cannon and MG's were quakered.

He couldn't move. He couldn't attack. He couldn't defend.

Can you define "Neutralized" for me then?

In most states (except where I took B-law) it is illegal to shoot someone unless in fear of imminent serious damage or death to ones or anothers self.

You can't even shoot an arsonist anymore and get away with it.
 
45-70 said:
Lets see, The tank was stuck, apparently the cannon and MG's were quakered.

He couldn't move. He couldn't attack. He couldn't defend.

Can you define "Neutralized" for me then?

In most states (except where I took B-law) it is illegal to shoot someone unless in fear of imminent serious damage or death to ones or anothers self.

You can't even shoot an arsonist anymore and get away with it.
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Excessive force, unwarranted deadly force and abuse of power is a real concern. I just don't see how anybody can make a case that the tank driver shooting wasn't justified. It's not even close to being a stretch. Sorry guys, we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.
 
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