OT:i am pissed--have to rant

[yiterp]

thank you my friends for the kind words--it ment alot to me

 

[Bamboo]

I can't live that way, I can't get the sustenance I need. So I open my heart again despite my fears, knowing I'll get clobbered again some day.

The only way to live.

Stiff and hard eventually breaks.

Soft and subtle bends and yields,

Just like the spines of our kukris.

~ B

 

[Bill Marsh]

Howard, that is all very true about getting it in writing, however I continue to look for and find men and women with whom a handshake is bond.

If I could not find them, I think I would be far more cynical and depressed than I am.

munk

I want it BOTH in writing and a handshake. Otherwise too many possible loose ends. And you can lose friends with loose ends!

As I study Indonesian culture I am constantly amazed at how the Balinese in particular make big deals. In olden times the Dutch would make written treaties signed by everyone.

One of the big differences was that because the waters around Bali are full of rocks reefs, Dutch ships would run aground. The Balinese considered any ship that ran aground as a gift from the sea gods and they would raid it.

The Dutch felt that they should leave the ships alone and let the Dutch help the stranded Dutch ships.

So the Dutch made a treaty with the Balinese king. The king signed the agreement and the Balinese happliy kept raiding stranded Dutch ships. The Dutch, understandibly, got very angry with the Balinese king.

The king was mystified. Writing in the Balinese mindset was to keep lists. Nothing else. Treaties were usually not written, but they were always made part of huge ceremonies in which both parties took the matter to the gods and promised, under heavy penalties, to respect each other's positions.

Intersting world.

So, back to the original premise: Handshake and get it in writing. BUT realize that if you are not dealing with people of integrity, both writing and handshake are worthless, except as the basis for a lawsuit.

 

[Yvsa]

But Kis is right when it comes to business. Do it on paper and that gives you something too fall back on.

In spite of what I said earlier I still have too agree with Munk & Rusty. I recently sold my old Dodge on a handshake deal that I am completely comfortable with because the family I sold it too have a sense of Honor and I know it.
I made the mistake of selling another vehicle under the same circumstances some time ago but I knew in my heart that the -man-, strike that, person who had often called me brother had really no sense of Honor in his heart.
He has lied about other things before and since. I hung up on him the other day instead of telling him outright what and how I feel and think.
First time I have heard from him in several months.
If he has the audacity too call back then he is fair game. I hate losing friends no matter the circumstances and way too often bend way too far backwards too try and make it right.
In this case it doesn't matter, the person is way too much like my old man and has told certain lies so long that he truly believes them himself now. Pity.

 

[X-Head]

If there was a meeting of the minds in a verbal agreement, that is still an agreement.

A verbal agreement is only as good as each party's memory.

Besides, in this case, what indication is there that an actual meeting of the minds ever occured? He was clearly under the impression that they had a meeting of the minds, but I don't think that ever took place. But how will we ever know? We have nothing to look back upon; we can't go back and listen to the original conversation in which the subject of the partnership was discussed, and we don't have anything in writing to look back upon. A tape recording of the conversation would probably work just as well, but we don't have that either. All a court would have to work with are two people's less than perfectly accurate account (or more precisely, interpretation) of what was said.

If a man feels that insisting upon putting it down in writing sends a message to the other party that he doesn't trust them, then all he has to do is get out a piece of paper and a pen and start writing it all down right there on the spot, and say something to the effect that you're just writing all this down because you've got a terrible memory and you don't want to forget what your commitments are, and so that we don't overlook anything. Write everything down that both parties have agreed upon, not just your end of it. Then have them look it over and agree to it or make corrections. The added benefit of doing this is that if they are just blowing smoke up your *** and never intend to honor their commitments in the first place, you'll find out right away when they start to hem and haw over having it in writing.

Better slight offense now than lost money, lost time, and broken dreams later. Written agreements are a time-honored practice all over the world that wise men have used in one form or another since longer than anyone can trace in human history. No one should take offense at being asked to pledge to you in writing what they just pledged to you verbally, unless he or she has no intention of honoring his or her word, in which case asking them to put it in writing is a great way to find out.

There may be more heart in a handshake than a contract, but a contract can help avoid the bitterness and ill-will caused by misunderstanding and miscommunication, and in that way it can actually save your friendship.

 

[gravertom]

" Moreover they reckoned not with the men , into whose hand they delivered the money to be bestowed on workmen: for they dealt faithfully."
II Kings 12:15

That is the ideal, but arrangements on paper are usually wise and necessary. I also try not to commit to more than I can afford to lose, whether time or money. Not always possible, but I try to be prepared for the possibility of things not working out when enter into business type arrangements.

Yit, I am sorry for your difficulty, esp. since your family is in a tough place right now. If you can manage it, do some small nice thing for him, while at the same time being careful in your dealings with him in the future.

"Be wise as serpents, but gentle as doves."

Tom