Ot: Language Police Text Books

Hello Yvsa from Dale LCS37 on the forum

I got quite upset listening to Talk Radio a couple of days ago. Topic was 'The Language Police' by Diane Ravitch. I will type a couple of excerpts from it below. If you can, check the local library or local bookstore.. I bought mine yesterday.

It is about bias political correct censorship on the authors and illustrators of School Text Books. How can we learn of other peoples if it is all censored? No wonder our school children are being dumbed down and we don't know anything about life's realities. No wonder so many Parents are Home Schooling AND many efforts are being made to STOP Home Schooling.

How can we learn of other peoples if it is all censored?

Depends on whether it is actually being censored or not, see further comments below.


"The language code tells how to describe the members of various American Indian groups; they must be identified as specific "nations," such as Shoshone, Ojibwa, or Choctaw, rather than by the generic term American Indian or Native American. Authors must ask the representative of the group itself what name they prefer, rather than relying on historical accounts (writers should refer to Kakota, Dakota, or Nakota, not Sioux; to Tohono O'odham, not Papago; to Dine Nation, not Navajo). Some American Indian groups use the word nation; some use the word tribe. The members of the groups themselves should decide what identity they favor (the guidelines do not say how a writer is supposed to find out what the members of the group want to be called or whether they agree:

Dale this is the result of some people actually listening to us and calling us what we prefer.

Textbooks are expected to show the positive impact of American Indian groups (tribes?Nations?) on American history. For example, the guidelines tell authors to acknowledge the highly dubious notions the the Constitution of the United Sates of America was "patterned partially after the League of Five Nations----a union formed by five Iroquois nations." The fact that this debt is not mentioned in the well-documented constitutional debates is of no concern.

Dale this is a well known fact among us ndns. And from the accounts I've read well documented.

Textbook authors are expected to promulgate ideas that appeal to ethnic pride, even at the rish of endorsing spurious history. Authors are told to ask "American Indian experts" for their choice of role models rather than focusing on familiar figures like Sacagawea, who helped European Americans (the point is to exclude her precisely because she is known for helping European American exploresrs) The word Eskimo is out, to be replaced by native Alaskan groups or specific names such as Inupiak and Yupik. Writers must be neutral in describing conflicts between the U.S. government and American Indians; they may not sescribe a victory for the U.S. cavalry as a battle and a victory for American Indians as a massacre." pg 36 and 37

I think this is a good thing as every historical site I've seen where the US won it was a battle, but where the ndns won it was a massacre. It isn't necessarily the truth the way these things are normally described.
The battle of the Greasy Grass or more commonly Custer's Last Stand is a good example. What most people don't know is that Custer was formally adopted by the Cheyenne and was given the name, "Morning Star."
Custer's body wasn't disfigured because of this, however the Cheyenne ladies did use their sewing awls to clean out his ears so that in the next life he would be better able to hear.
We call ourselves by some of the non-ndn names the non-ndns gave us just like the African Americans do, but we don't like it when it's used by non-ndns as they have no right.
Oklahoma is changing the place names such as Squaw Creek and the like to names that doesn't offend us. It's too bad that some other states such as Arizona doesn't listen although one of the Arizona represenatives as proposed changing the name of Squaw Peak, Squaw Beltway and the other Squaw place names to Jessica Lynch Peak, Beltway and etc.
Squaw Peak was once called Squaw Tit Peak, but was changed when the white women started to come into the surrounding area as it was offensive to them.
We don't like being used as mascots either. The Washington Redskins, Cleveland Indians, the Kansas City Chief's and other mascot named sports should be renamed.
You can bet your ass these names would have already been changed if they were
such as Washington N****r's, Cleveland K**k's and the Kansas City W*p's!!!!


Pg 45 "When portraying Native Americans, illustrators must avoid the stereotyed image of long hair, braids, and headbands; they must not depict red skin, impassive expressions, "how" guestures, warlike stances, and comic poses. They must also avoid full headdress, feathers, buffalo robes, war paint, and bows and arrows. Native Americans must not be shown living in teepees surrounded by totem poles and pinto horses or living in shacks or on reservations. Males should not appear hunting or in war parties or passing the peace pipe. Females should not be shown sewing buffalo hides, drinding corn, or carrying papooses. Contmprary native Americans should not be working on ranches or in menial jobs or in skyscraper construction (they should be lawyers, teachers, sports figures, and professionals). Again, the world may not be deficted as it is and as it was, but only as the guidelin writers wouild like it to be.

This is also a good thing as many of us aren't red in color even though we may be very dark and some of us have skin color and features that we can pass as white should we want to. Some tribes even have color almost as deep as the negroid peoples.
We didn't all wear braids or have buffalo robes nor used the hau (how) gesture.
The people that lived in tipis did not have totem poles.
And not all of us had what is commonly known as the "Peace Pipe" and not many know the significance of the way of the Pipe.
We had children, not papooses.

Contmprary native Americans should not be working on ranches or in menial jobs or in skyscraper construction (they should be lawyers, teachers, sports figures, and professionals). Again, the world may not be deficted as it is and as it was, but only as the guidelin writers wouild like it to be.

This part is pure BS as many of us do work in these places and yet there are now many of us in careers such as a doctor, lawyer. Jim Thorpe, a Saux & Fox, was an honored Olympic figure and many of us are really good at sports.
There's really not a lot of difference between the ndn and non-ndn when it comes to what we do for a living.

No mention of Mount Rushmore, as it is sensitive to American Indians.

Yep!!!! We begged for the land to not be defaced!!!!

Yvsa, many many more examples and the thoughts behind the censorships Women can not be shown weeping or weak, but man can and it is encouraged. Housewife is a no no.

This is BS as well since men and women both cry. Housewife is an honored profession and one of the hardest jobs there is. If we had to pay our wife and the mother of our children wht they're worth most of us wouldn't have a wife as we couldn't afford one.
I cried a lot when my youngest son was killed in a motorcyle accident as I believe any father would.


I could go on and on, but try to read the book, if you would and I would really appreciate your comments.

Dale I have too many other irons in the fire to take on another cause. There's too many ndn issues that are near and dear to me, but I do appreciate you thinking me worthy.
 
saw this on some TV show the other night. Freedom of speech?

As Bill so eloquently put it, "It's all BS". Now substitute the letter P for B and the letter C for S and you'll understand why we're goin' to hell via handcart.
 
I really hate it when mealy mouthed jerks take up a cause that actually has some good points to it.

Most political correctness is in the province of the jerks. In the case that Yvsa made, the jerks who propagate it seldom understand the reasoning of the people, nor do they ask their permission or explanation.

Let's put it this way. You try to be courteous in the way you refer to certain things because they matter to your friends. Then you turn around and Hanoi Jane Fonda is now out there pushing political correctness in referring to indians. :barf: :barf: :barf:
 
The textbooks certainly have changed. And people in California wonder why we have a lower standard than the national average....:rolleyes:

I remember in elementary, we couls say black, indian, chinese/filipino/japanese, or white. Now it's african american, native american, asian american, and caucasian. People who come up with this stuff not only fear the facts of history, they also seem to never know what to call themselves.
 
Originally posted by Don Rac
I remember in elementary, we couls say black, indian, chinese/filipino/japanese, or white. Now it's african american, native american, asian american, and caucasian. People who come up with this stuff not only fear the facts of history, they also seem to never know what to call themselves.

Us ndns generally prefer to be called ndns or the name of our tribe, but then some of those Native Americans are apt to someday get a bunch of us ndns kilt.:rolleyes: :p

I remember when the term, "colored people" was in vogue. My ex-wife's mother used to say that but I finally broke her. When she would say colored person I would ask her what color as I was colored. She didn't believe me when I told her people would look at me funny when her red haired daughter and I was having coffee and danish bread pudding at Luckys' before we went in to shop for our groceries.
One day she went with us. I wore my rez hat with the feathers and a calico shirt.
She saw what I was saying to be true after all.:rolleyes: :(
 
This PC stuff definitely is BS.People who live in Germany call themselves "Deutsch". The French call them "Allemandes". We call them "Germans". No one gets their knickers in a twist about it. Can you imagine a French textbook writer checking to see if it was O.K. with the English if he referred to them as "Anglais"? It's ludicrous to prefer social engineering to the truth in a history textbook (or anywhere, for that matter).
 
Sorry to disagree with you Pappy, but I gotta go with Mark Twain who said "Whiskey is for drinking. Water is for fighting over." He also said " First God created idiots. That was for practice. Then he created School Boards."

PS: If you'd seen some of our school board meetings you'd understand why I don't think it's all water in the carafes the board has sitting in front of them.
 
I find myself wondering:

Just what is it they're aiming for, with this degree of PC and censorship(school and media)? And it seems progressive to me.

As a given that it's reasonable to work(take) out prejudice, cultural bias and truly sexist views. It's gone and still going beyond that.

:confused:
Having trouble with a rosy outcome, in the near future any way.


Shirley
 
It is a known fact that many of the teaching profession were and no doubt still are (Communist). Many were not caught in the so called clean up a few years back. Never fear Commmunism is alive and well. As far as that goes I still think some of the past countries are playing possum.

Youngwood, I see no good coming from the present route that most of the world is headed. Every body wants their right in tact but, they don't mind stomping on yours and mine to get things the way they want. I still don't understand those coming from other countries to the western countries, then wanting to change things to the same crap they just left.:grumpy:
 
It is a known fact that many of the teaching profession were and no doubt still are (Communist).

Pappy,

Perhaps I am in a generous mood this morning. But, I would argue that these people are not communist. What they are is self interested, and they are willing to compromise their professional integrity to milk the system for all it is worth. Our problem is that we have a system that is willing to encourage that.

To these folks PC is just another excuse to rewrite the textbooks, to fund more commitees, and justify a demonsterable claim that they are actually doing something. Likewise, our schools have become a catch all for a wide variety of social programs; and every one of these programs provides a few more dollars to the school system and a few more brownie points for the politicians. So the focus is on attracting a few more programs, rather then on the basic tasks of teaching.

My real gripe is with the teaching environment. If you haven't noticed our schools look and behaive more like prisons with every passing day. For a society that is hesitant to incarcerate criminals for fear of encouraging and hardening their criminal career, we really have to ask ourselves what we are trying to accomplish with our schools. What kind of citizens are we producing? Are we creating people who are willing to step out and achieve, or people who are so beating down by bureaucratic authority that they are no longer willing to lead, innovate, or assume responsibility?

I hope and believe that have reached a breaking point. That the PC tide has actually crested and is beginning to receed. That we will begin to concern ourselves less with what our ancestors may have called themselves 200 years ago, and concern ourselves instead with what we call ourselves today as citizens of these United States.

n2s
 
N2S,
Perhaps the educators are applying their own value system to their lives. Live for yourself. I notice different values in most of the younger people I work with than those I was thaught. They don't take reponsibility for anything. This does not apply to all but most. It isn't just the schools fault either.
Its kind of a blessing when you see someone at BirGorka trying to help one of the younger people become a doctor to come back and help the local villagers.
 
Bill O'Reilly had this so called author on The Factor last night and from what was said there made me curious so I came back and read the link.
I now agree that most of it is BS.........
......except for the part about the ndn.
No one listens to us when we complain about the use of ndn names, etc for mascots for sports teams or place names or portraying us as all wearing braids and living in tipis.
The Cherokee, TsaLaGi, lived in square or rectangle mud and wattle homes that were really quite nice inside. We actually lived in towns, some of which were quite large.
The TsaLaGi men also wore their hair in a scalplock which was one area of hair growing from the scalp. The rest was clean shaven, actually clean plucked, and that meant all over the body except the eyebrows. We were farmers and hunter-gathers.
The plains people needed a more mobile dwelling since they were nomadic.
There are many types of ndn housing, the wigwam, longhouse, hogan and several others I can't recall at the moment.
There has been some change here in Oklahoma as I mentioned the state was in the process of changing place names.
There has been some debate about changing the Union High School mascot from The Redskins to something more palatable.
The term "redskin" came from the scalps, ears and other body parts that were turned in from ndns killed for their bounty.:grumpy:
The biggest difference between the ndn and other minority races is that.....They want in while we want out.
Each and every tribe, nation or whatever is sovereign and in charge of their own government.
Personally I think the differences in us ndn peoples should be taught, after all there were over 500 sovereign nations at the advent of this country being discovered.

All the other is just plain BS. "The Framers" instead of the "Founding Fathers." BullS**t
The next thing you know is that co-ed toilets will be common so as not to distinguish between the sexes.:rolleyes: :barf: :grumpy:
 
uh, Teutonic American fer me, please, while we're being all correct like.

ndns trying to get out while others gettin in -- I like that. It worked in Canada, I mustve crossed 6 or so Native nations on the way thru the Upper Peninsula and into N. Ontario. The spray paint on all the bridges decries "this is Indian land." The land is all private property, self governing, self serving. As a nation should be.

A Canadian buddy of mine visited an US Res after living with the less oppressed CandiaNDNs, and he likened the US resos to concentration camps or prisons, like it was some 150year old Guantanamo bay that never ended. Depressing stats, for the "Land of the Free."

Keith
 
But, in general terms, a lot of cultural bias shows up in text books, and even more in the local society that nutures an individual through childhood. Some of this stuff needed to be done.

I grew up reading texts in which all the characters were white kids watching their dog run and fetch. At the time, I presume children of other ethnic origin in the public schools got to read the same thing. What did this do to influence their thinking about themselves or their ethnic background?

I grew up hearing and using derogatory terms as casual references to people not like me.*

Even today, I cringe at the some of the sweeping references that were used to describe Iraqis and and people of arabic origin...especially during the combat stages of the conflict.

Not sure I should say this, but seems to me humans WANT to discriminate between "Us" and "Them"--no matter who the "us-es" and "thems" are. May be cultural, may be some evolutionary trait to bond a tribe...dunno, but from religion to color to manner of speaking or style of dress, we seem to have a discrimatory inclination. Worse cases end up in murder or genocide; less worse in prejudicial treatment.

Maybe we're getting better at living. Just MAYBE.


(*Grew up in Irish family. When I was dating in high school, my mother would inquire: "You going out with the kraut (dago, polack, etc.) tonight?" OR "You going out with Mary Ann O'Reilly tonight?"
She could only remember the Irish names. CERTAINLY no bias there.)
 
Sometimes belonging to a tribe means to some folk that they are somehow different than the other. Sometimes this shows itself as elitism, or nationalism, which can also lead to nasty things like facism.

Once, all the tribes of man were just one tribe. Then as the tribe expanded, it needed more resouurces, so part of the tribe split off to forage for itself. At that point a division was made. so, the tribes go about their business, and see/hear little of each other over the distances. As resources abound in these areas, the tribes prosper and grow, and continue to expand and search out new territories. Eventualy, the world is populated, and these tribes, some being offshoots of offshoots of offshoots, start running into tribes during their expansion. All tribes being loyal to their specific tribe now, as opposed to the tribe of mankind, have certain "ways" about them that have developed differently than in other tribes. They are now calling themselves by different names, doing different socio/religious stuff, leadinng different lives. (But this 'difference' is little more than the whole "You say tomato" ancdoote, there is really no heavy difference.)

So, eventually some disagreement occurs, and some tribes decide they dont like "Tribe X." they begin to concentrate on the diffs between each other, fostering a hate or animosity or apprehensiveness of the other folk (a nasty flip-side to pride in their folk).

So, you end up with "Black Power" and "White Power" and allthat hate crap, whrn it should just be "Human Power" "People Power." Until we can realize that, our hands are tied. If it is easier to kill someone than talk with them, then why are we gifted with speech but hafta build weapons? what the hel are we in for? It was not always/doesn't hafta be like this.

Kis - Similar story with a buddy of mine Chul Kim. Hi mom is very disapproving of his non-Korean girlfriends, and about had heart failure when he dated a Japanese-American. Nationally, Korea and Jappan have strained relations at best, but how could she be so discriminatory about a human? Would her hate of a nation lead her to hate people who originated from that nation? She is a minsiter in the Presbyterian Church, no less...

Keith
 
I think you got it reduced to the basics, Keith. In reality we are all one tribe. Seems to me that's the most PC stance there is.
 
Originally posted by Bill Martino
......reduced to the basics, Keith.
In reality we are all one tribe.
.....that's the most PC stance there is.
And there you have it. :)
 
Bring on the next of the worlds problems to solve! HI Cantina's got the answers.

To quote Sting:
"One world is enough for all of us."
Less prolific, Bill&Ted's Excellent Advanture:
"Be cool to each other."
To quote my Video Rental place (much less prolific):
"Be kind--remember to rewind."

If everyone could just say they're sorry every now and again, to seek to understand, THEN to be understood, it'll all work out.

The HI Cantina community is proof of this. We are brothers and sisters, irrespective of nationality, language, gender, age, life experiences, etc. Diversity is strength (and not just in genetics, stock portfolios, etc).

Keith
 
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